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Vinyl and B&O

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Andrew
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Andrew posted on Wed, Sep 9 2015 2:42 PM

Understandably B&O couldn't afford to make a turntable for such a limited market, however uptake with younger people is gaining momentum and it struck me, having resurrected my Thorens turntable, that perhaps they should go in for making an arm for modern turntables - just like they used too. it could have a wide range of mounting options for different cartridges since they can no longer make them either. Possibly a box that allows wireless connections.

Most likely it would be way too expensive and no point unless they could do something different and make it desirable

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Mark
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Mark replied on Wed, Sep 9 2015 5:24 PM
I disagree, it's about mindset and if you start out on a project correctly with a small dedicated team you could reach your desired price point whilst preserving your usp.

Start diluting your from your original concept normally just adds weight and expense.

The only question is how do you connect the turntable to your speakers, can you go wireless as B&O are pushing and still win over the heart of the vinyl purists....

I for one would buy a new B&O turntable

we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Wed, Sep 9 2015 5:56 PM

Manufacturing a tonearm would be an even bigger catastrophe for B&O than making a new table/cartridge. The market for separate arms is exceedingly small, smaller by far than the turntable market. It's also entirely focused on the high end audiophile group, who will, in my experience, never, ever, admit B&O is "high end" and embrace a product from them no matter how good the product is (e.g. the Beolab 5). I've heard audiophiles who on first exposure were blown away by the BL5, who then pontificated that, well, it's OK, but it'd be soooo much better if B&O used "real" amps (inefficient class A units of appropriate pedigree) and better drivers, etc.

Jeff

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bayerische
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Vinyl has been commercially dead since the 1980'ties, and still is. 

 

I'm sure some disagree, and that is fine. But young people (besides the occasional few who see it "hip") do not use vinyl. They're glued to their iPhones. 

Too long to list.... 

Mark
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Mark replied on Wed, Sep 9 2015 10:19 PM
vinyl record sales are on another high for 2015 and up by 56% and the biggest number of sales since 1994....

we tend to forget there is more to design than designing.

Playdrv4me
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Mark:
vinyl record sales are on another high for 2015 and up by 56% and the biggest number of sales since 1994....

 

 

Right, but using the height of vinyl, when B&O were still producing TTs (and I mean seriously producing, not the stuff at the end of their turntable run) as a point of comparison, how much market is there realistically now compared to then. I bet it's still exceedingly small. But it could really gain steam soon, too. I'm not saying it can't. 

Jeff
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Jeff replied on Wed, Sep 9 2015 11:24 PM

Vinyl sales could group by an order of magnitude and still be a drop in the bucket compared with downloads and streaming. While I appreciate vinyl, and tube amps, for their retro-ness, it will never again be a significant market. Consider also the two main groups ov vinylphiles...hipster kids who can't or won't dump large amounts of money on a table, and hard core audiophiles who will never be Beogram customers due to their distain for B&O and their inability to use any cartridge, clamp, or whatever tweak is hot on a closed ecosystem like a Beogram. Personally I like my Beogram 3000/MMC2 combo a lot but I'm not a traditional audiophile anymore. 

Jeff

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Duels
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Duels replied on Thu, Sep 10 2015 8:33 AM
I tend to agree with you on everything you have said Jeff. However I would still buy a B&O turntable if they produced one and others on here have said they would too. Could we have some sort of poll I wonder? I know it's difficult because it's very hypothetical particularly regarding price. But I would happily pay up to the price of a Moment (say) for one. Possibly more. Anyone else?
Andrew
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Andrew replied on Thu, Sep 10 2015 8:51 AM

I would buy one if it had the same or better performance as an equivalent from a rival at its price point - Islington B&O have a Project 2 Experience deck next to a Moment and a small tube pre amp in between - it looks fantastic - the deck and amp cost around £1000 - that would be the problem for B&O I suspect. Other manufacturers are making decks that can stream to wireless systems, so I suspect Vinyl isn't dead in the same way that Polaroid cameras are making a come back with the film being manufactured somewhere in Europe. Even old brick phones are starting to appear as trendy again. The old technologies are never going to take over from the new, but they are gaining popularity as people crave more simple ways of doing things and not having to sign up or give out details to use electronic services.

A poll is a good idea.

Andrew
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Andrew replied on Thu, Sep 10 2015 8:51 AM

I would buy one if it had the same or better performance as an equivalent from a rival at its price point - Islington B&O have a Project 2 Experience deck next to a Moment and a small tube pre amp in between - it looks fantastic - the deck and amp cost around £1000 - that would be the problem for B&O I suspect. Other manufacturers are making decks that can stream to wireless systems, so I suspect Vinyl isn't dead in the same way that Polaroid cameras are making a come back with the film being manufactured somewhere in Europe. Even old brick phones are starting to appear as trendy again. The old technologies are never going to take over from the new, but they are gaining popularity as people crave more simple ways of doing things and not having to sign up or give out details to use electronic services.

A poll is a good idea.

Dave Farr
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Regarding the Project 2 set-up you saw and looked fantastic. I have a full Project system (bought on a whim out of interest and reputation) comprising a Project 2 TT, speed control box, source selector box, amp, tuner, CD player and speakers and it does look good. However, it sound rubbish in comparison to any of my B&O set-ups. It's tinny and has no depth or detail. Looks great, sounds crap from any source.

As for a new B&O TT, I'd buy one but would expect it to be at least £1500 excluding cartridge but I would only get one based on specs and design. But what cartridge would they use? One of the great things about the old TT's was the cart. A selection of diamond profiles and cantilever materials. It seems that B&O either will not, or cannot make cartridges any more so what would they use?

It would make for an interesting styling challenge though.

Dave.
Andrew
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Andrew replied on Thu, Sep 10 2015 1:02 PM

interesting - I know I was disappointed with both the project turntables I had and put it down to the cartridges - The Thorens is definitely the best I've heard from my experience but it has a decent cartridge in it and my beogram 1500 has an old MMC20EN in it which probably needs a retip etc. That said the BG4004 sounded very good but had so many technical issues. I haven't yet heard any high end turntables but am intrigued.

I guess the ortofon cartridge (concord type) would be a logical choice if they were to make a turntable. 

Søren Hammer
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I don't see any meaning in a new B&O turntable in a time where you can get a refurbished Beogram 4000 with a retipped cartridge, for the same price as a new ordinary mid-price turntable with cartridge.

Furthermore, the bean counters who killed off the traditional turntable production are still doing their job at B&O cirka 20 years later. Where should it be produced? Of which quality materials? How about the cartrigde system? We are talking millions in development from scratch and even more for tooling a plant for the job.

Vinyl records, cassettes, open reel, valve amplifiers and film photography.

Andrew
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Andrew replied on Thu, Sep 10 2015 1:48 PM

It's why I thought a good half way house would be to produce an arm and or cartridge to fill a gap and showcase their expertise, however I think you are right, it would just be too expensive for them to consider and too limited a market.

bayerische
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Mark:
vinyl record sales are on another high for 2015 and up by 56% and the biggest number of sales since 1994....

 

 

Don't forget vinyl was dead in 1994. It's a novelty.

Too long to list.... 

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