KMA... An excellent post. Just like to say thank you for this. From what I have seen from my Avant so far collaborates all what you say. Compressed HD not good. Non Compressed Excellent. Not sure the Avant is the right product for me right now. Really appreciate your post. Many Thanks

KMA wrote:

High-quality 1080p content can look better on a 4K display than on a Full HD display. This depends of course on how good the picture processing and panel are.

However, compressed broadcast video (720p, 1080i/p) can have more pronounced compression artifacts on a 4K display than on a Full HD display, due to the higher pixel count (sharper display) and because the artifacts themselves are upscaled & enhanced. It can be reasoned that this can result in artifacts in the compression artifacts! 

I've just read both reviews and these are not conclusions I would have drawn! I couldn't find where they said that 1080p content looked better on a 4K display, although I did read a section on the Sony TV that said "leave the 4K setting on even for 1080p content" but that was because, if it was turned off the TV couldn't properly show 1080 burst patterns, not that it displayed them better than a 1080 panel.

Puncher wrote:

While I applaud Richer Sounds intentions, I'm afraid there were far too many variables to attribute the better picture to pixel count. I don't doubt it was universally selected as better, just that the pixel density was the overwhelming contributory factor.

I agree...it's very, very difficult to setup a test when there are as many variables as there are here. It's like testing 44.1 vs. 96 khz using two different players and two different but very similar speakers.

I believe in the test they got the results they got, but I think it's impossible to be absolutely sure of the reasons. Controlled perceptual testing is hard, if it's not perfect it will lead you down all sorts of rabbit holes. Even minor differences in contrast and gray scale linearity can shift perceptions of which is better far more than pixel count.

When there's as much 4k source material as laserdisc ( remember those ? ) I'll be interested ( which was uber niche at best ) But I still had a few players etc

At the moment it's approaching ELCASET levels of acceptance lol

SA-CD , DVD -A ? ring any bells ???

Puncher wrote:

I've just read both reviews and these are not conclusions I would have drawn! I couldn't find where they said that 1080p content looked better on a 4K display, although I did read a section on the Sony TV that said "leave the 4K setting on even for 1080p content" but that was because, if it was turned off the TV couldn't properly show 1080 burst patterns, not that it displayed them better than a 1080 panel.

Ban boring signatures!

KMA wrote:

Puncher wrote:

 

I've just read both reviews and these are not conclusions I would have drawn! I couldn't find where they said that 1080p content looked better on a 4K display, although I did read a section on the Sony TV that said "leave the 4K setting on even for 1080p content" but that was because, if it was turned off the TV couldn't properly show 1080 burst patterns, not that it displayed them better than a 1080 panel.

 

Ban boring signatures!

 

 

 

The blu-ray conclusion was pretty clear on this, IMO:

 

 

"We spun a few Blu-ray discs, and the phenomenal images put out by the Bravia X9005B so wowed us that it got us asking “what devilry is this?”. The fantastic contrast between inky blacks and bright whites – even when they co-existed on the same scene – simply belied the measured ANSI black level of 0.056 cd/m2. Was it Sony’s new X-tended Dynamic Range technology which operated at a more microscopic level beyond what even our reference-grade instruments could measure? Was it the way LCDs can deliver linear light output that’s unhindered by ABL (Automatic Brightness Limiter) unlike plasma and OLED TVs? We honestly don’t know. All we know is the Sony X9-B produced a truly fabulous, high-contrast image that appealed greatly to our videophilic eyes."

 

 

I'd attribute the "devilry" to 4K and excellent processing of blu-ray. But I might have read too much into this, although the 4K model was deemed "reference level" of all the LCD TV tests they have performed.

OK - you're free to interpret the passage as you see fit, my interpretation is that they were wowed by the image but couldn't say specifically what made it so good, although they did call out contrast, extended dynamic range and linear light output as being possibilities. The extra pixels weren't singled out as a potential reason and so I would conclude that it was not an overwhelming contributor to the wow factor they experienced.

Puncher wrote:

The extra pixels weren't singled out as a potential reason and so I would conclude that it was not an overwhelming contributor to the wow factor they experienced.

jbrown77 wrote:

KMA... An excellent post. Just like to say thank you for this. From what I have seen from my Avant so far collaborates all what you say. Compressed HD not good. Non Compressed Excellent. Not sure the Avant is the right product for me right now. Really appreciate your post. Many Thanks

KMA wrote:

And perhaps you should give the Avant a little more time? B&O have just released the first software update for Avant (as mentioned in the other thread, with a comment that upscaled picture seems to have become better), so chances are the picture will continue improving with further updates.

When my Avant is installed Wednesday, as a long-standing BV11-46 user and BV10 owner, I'll be in a good place to comment on the differences and, believe me, I won't hold back. If it isn't as good, or has motion issues, I'll tell you.

As I've said many times before, when B&O moved to the BV7-40 MK3, with the first 1080P panel, SD upscaling was worse than the picture on the (720) MK2. Lots of complaints. I expect the same with the Avant. Regular HD TV won't be as good as the BV11-55, but upscaled Blu-ray (native 1080P) will be superb.

What I do intend do though, is to upscale via the Oppo player, which has two input HDMI sources, for upscaling to 4K in the player, rather than the Avant.

can't wait for your 'review'

Caveat emptor