355f:

355f:

On the price adjusted RPI firgure you mention; its an interesting point and of course accurate, the products today are no more expensive in real terms BUT over the past 8 years we have had huge wholescale price deflation in the audio and video business and large advances in technology. I admire the Bs9000 and the bl8000 but they are prehistoric in electronic terms.

Yes but that is the whole point of RPI. 20-25 years ago, the level of disposable income whould have been similar - no the same. Electronics have got cheaper but other things more expensive. Thus the amount one could spend on a luxury item like a BC9000 remains the same and relative. More interestingly, you have to strip the cost of all the extras in say a BV7-40. £2200 for the BL7.2 for a £200 speaker. Lose the DVD, lose the stand, lose the AR glass, lose the DTS. This takes the ratio from 7 time to perhaps 2 or 3 times. I'm not defending it, I'm just arguing we should compare like for like.

In terms of prehistoric electronics. I wonder what we will be writing about the BL5 when it is still in the product portfolio in twenty years time, still unrivaled in its price bracket. Sampling rates may have gone up etc...but what are the chances of another sonic breakthrough? Although not my bag, there is still not many things out there that compare and stack up against a BS9000 or the BL8000 when you look at what they do.

At the end of the day, our expectations have become even greater.

10%

Well it follows therefore that you have to strip out these 'extras'  that the 'other brands' now offer- not just the 'extras' that BnO provide.

Whilst I understand the economics of the debate I purchased a LX2800 in 1987  and it was double the price of the very best Sont Tv at that time. The B&O was a better tv, better sound, better picture and it looked super stylish.

Moving forward to 2008 we have a Pioneer gen 8 for £1700 and a BV4 for £11500 where performance is not that much better- no real difference in looks- no speaker at all- Am i missing something here??thats a 7 times price differential to me

At the end of the day our expectations have become higher because of these huge prices and we start looking elsewhere and question the value. 

Nice input Mr10Percent ! You look at B&o from a another angle than the most of us in here...

And what about the price on the Avant 32" RF DVD when it was new ?? We all speak about the mega high price on: BV9, BV7,  and BV4, but think back a little ... The price in Sweden for a Avant RF DVD was about 7500:- € when it was new, and almost 6-7 times more expensive than a Philips 32" RF 100Hz Natural Motion TV at that time = The same huge price difference like today...

The higher price span in between go hand in hand with the increasing conjuncture and income as everyone already know...

So i don´t see why we all complaining about the price on B&o.. Buy Samsung or Pioneer if you wont to feel like an "Average Joe" then.. (I think we already have too many Average Joe´s in this world)

I like unique products!.. 😕

In fact here in the Uk I purchased an avant and i recal it was exactly double that of the Sony Wega at the time,

 the picture was better, the sound was in a different league and it had a VHS recorder built in, with a motorised stand in a nice cabinet.

I purchased a bs3 and bv4 , would i recommend that an individual makes the same decision - NO, better value better product and a superior one out there for far far less.

We have had honest individuals on here who , having bought the BV7 say they would never buy that set again.- Is this good for repeat business for BnO?? 'average joe' is delighted with the better performing products available elsewhere. I dont just mean maninstream barnds either

If being 'an average joe'   means I am a more discerning customer that has access to far better products at far lower prices then i would prefer to be classed as that- rather than the message that BnO presently delivers, and its not a good one- an individual that could have been more selective in purchasing a better performing product that is more unique- not available in every city with 2 B&O shops and costs the same or less for far more performance.

Fact is now, BnO with the franchsie system is no longer exclusive in the same way it was so BnO have to decide what they want to do, cater for individuals with more money than sense- in which case close most of the shops, or start looking seriously at the product range and prices in order to support the dealers that have made huge investments in bno products

the problem seems to be that there just isn't anything in bno's current range that comes anywhere near the all round brilliance of the avant

certainly nothing more stylish , the bv7 speaker just looks weird imo and ruins the whole look

why on earth isn't it the same width for each model ? 

I think AT, 355f and moxxey Miss understand me a little bit here.. My point was if you want to be unique and own a TV that not so many people have you buy B&o or Loewe..

And if you buy a TV only by the Specs and value for money you can buy things that are mass produced like Samsung, LG, Sharp, Panasonic or Pioneer..

Everyone i have spoken "B&o" with nows that B&o makes expensive Quality products. But in the other hand the most also now that their design/quality are miles ahead the mass produced products you can buy in a ordinary electronic supermarket´s...

I like design items and rare design products / brands...  I look at the item i´m interesting in and if i like what i see and it´s feel right i often buy it... I don't look so much at the price.. If B&o was a cheap brand with the same products they have today i´m pretty shore that i have bought it also because i like the looks and finish...

Unique/quality products are often expensive, but not always..

I don't mind paying for what I know I'm getting - I understand the differences in tooling costs for casting tools, plastic injection moulding tools and engineering costs when the products are destined for low volume versus high volume markets, however I still think B&O are taking the mickey on their current TV costs (if not their entire product range). Costs can spiral to cover for weaknesses elsewhere in their business plan - if this is the case it is not healthy. If the costs are spiralling because they believe they have a customer base willing to pay then this is even more worrying for the future.

I know ther are those that will pay the price regardless, even for product that many think are weak but I believe engineering, features, design and quality will always sell - past reputations however will not!

Just my opinion!

See article from Ingeniøren (in Danish) regarding B&O's future. Ingeniøren is the weekly paper (60-70 pages) for Danish engineers

The short version:

B&O have failed to ride the good financial wave.

Lots of products delayed

400 engineers must either be prioritized for new areas (auto, mobile etc, or assure "old" products are on time.)

B&O must be better to read the trends.

Flat screens are difficult to make exceptional (C1010: please don’t start the usual "defence" wave!!)

New Board may be coming soon

Analyse: Bang & Olufsens vanskelige prioritering af ingeniørtimer

Chokket over sidste uges overraskende nedjustering fra B&O med efterfølgende cheffyring og kursdyk har efterhånden lagt sig. Tilbage står dog stadig spørgsmålene om, hvordan det kunne gå så galt så hurtigt - og om der i virkeligheden gemmer sig mere alvorlige forklaringer end et dårligt julesalg bag nedjusteringen.

Der synes ikke længere nogen tvivl om, at forbrugerne i den vestlige verden er begyndt at holde på pengene - meldinger om et svagt decembersalg indløber i disse uger fra vidt forskellige detailkæder i Europa og USA.

Men sandheden er også, at B&O i flere år - trods højkonjunktur på de fleste markeder - har haft svært ved at leve op til sine egne vækstambitioner. Herunder målet om en omsætning i 2010 på seks milliarder kroner mod knap 4,4 milliarder i seneste regnskabsår.

Og det faktum at den danske producent af luksusprodukter i så gavnligt et økonomisk klima ikke har været i stand til at ekspandere forretningen som ventet bunder ifølge analytikere og fagfolk med fingeren på den tekniske puls i flere teknologiske og strategiske udfordringer.

For det første har B&O haft svært ved at få nye produkter på markedet til tiden. I 2005 nåede første generation af mobiltelefonen Serenata ikke frem til butikkerne i tide til den vigtige julehandel, selvom den blev lanceret i efteråret. I 2007 var det lanceringen af fladskærmsfjersynet Beovision 7, der måtte udsættes to gange på det amerikanske marked. Og i forbindelse med sidste uges nedjustering blev introduktionen af et nyt audiosystem, der ifølge koncernens egne udmeldinger vil revolutionere måden at integrere lyd og computer, så udskudt til efteråret.

Forsinkede lanceringer er i sig selv alvorlige. Men i en branche hvor udviklingstiderne er under konstant pres, så nye modeller og teknologier kan sprøjtes på markedet, inden konkurrenterne kommer med noget endnu bedre, kan forsinkelser på halve år koste dyrt på bundlinjen.

Og det leder direkte til den anden mulige forklaring på Struer-virksomhedens vækstproblemer: Prioriteringen af de cirka 400 ingeniører og designere i udviklingsafdelingerne i Struer, Århus, Estland og Tjekkiet.

Sammenholdt med kæmper som Samsung, Apple og Philips skal B&O meget nøje prioritere, hvor de sparsomme udviklingstimer skal anvendes. Og i de senere år har koncernen brugt mange timer på at udvikle nye koncepter som lydanlæg til luksusbiler, mobiltelefonen Serenata - dog i samarbejde med Samsung - og MP3-afspilleren BeoSound. Og det i en tid med stor knaphed af dygtige udviklingsfolk.

Satsningen på lydanlæg til biler som Audi og Aston Martin har vist sig at være en succes - med en forventet omsætning i 2010 på 300-500 millioner kroner. Og mobiltelefon og MP3-afspiller er begge forsøg på at trække nye generationer af kunder ind i B&O-universet.

Men udviklingen har trukket udviklingskræfter væk fra kerneforretningen - fjernsyn og audio-anlæg - hvilket kan være en årsag til forsinkelsen af det, ifølge B&O selv, revolutionerende audiosystem, som forventes at være koncernens bud på næste generation af integreret lyd og computer.

Netop den strategiske fokusering af udviklingskræfterne var da også en af bestyrelsesformand Jørgen Wornings begrundelser for den omdiskuterede fyring af koncernchef Torben Ballegaard Sørensen.

B&O synes derfor nu at stå over for et strategisk valg mellem at satse kræfterne på kerneforretningen eller på at udvikle de nye ben. Vælger koncernen det første, risikerer både Serenata-telefonen og den digitale musikafspiller ifølge flere kilder at lide en stille død.

Koncernen har desuden en udfordring i at koble sig sammen med de rigtige samarbejdspartnere. Nok har B&O opfundet tekniske løsninger som motordrejesokler til deres tv, automatiske afbrydere og Beolink- systemet, der integrerer lyd, billed og lys. Men på de brede grundteknologier har koncernen altid måttet vente på de store konkurrenters løsninger og derefter tilføre dem de sidste fem procent, som hæver design og teknologi til B&O-standard.

Derfor er koncernen afhængig af, at samarbejdspartnere som Samsung forbliver udviklingsstjerner, der kan sikre ingeniørerne og designerne på B&O hurtig adgang til den nyeste teknik.

En tredje væsentlig udfordring er evnen til at læse markedets behov og time nye produkter derefter. B&O kom relativ sent med på fladskærmsbølgen - angiveligt fordi de første generationer af teknologi ikke levede op til kvalitetskravene.

I dag tilbyder koncernen en bred vifte af skærme, men ifølge tekniske fagfolk har udviklerne haft svært ved at tilføre skærmene det B&O-touch, som markedet forventer.

Fortrinnet ved en fladskærm er blandt andet, at den netop er - flad. Og som sådan svær at peppe op. B&O har forsøgt at udbygge sine skærme med pølser af højtalere placeret under, eller bygget ud fra, selve skærmen. Men ifølge flere iagttagere af markedet kan netop dette få den danske virksomheds produkter til at virke klodsede. Og når den generelle pris på fladskærme samtidig styrtdykker, risikerer de høje priser på B&Os produkter at blive udstillet ekstra meget.

Desuden har introduktionen af 26-tommer skærmen BeoVision 8-26 angiveligt været en af efterårets skuffelser - blandt andet fordi produktet kom så sent på markedet, at forbrugernes krav til mindstestørrelse undervejs var steget.

Alle disse udfordringer ligger og venter på en ny koncernchef, der i samarbejde med bestyrelsen - som ifølge flere medier også kan stå over for et snarligt generationsskifte - nu skal genfinde vejen til vækst i en tid, hvor en historisk højkonjunktur netop har toppet. Og hvor et teknologisk generationsskifte med integration af lyd, billede og computer står for døren.

Hvis den kommende ledelse evner at få de rette produktlanceringer ud til tiden og forstår at læse et elektronikmarked i kraftig forandring, vil B&O fortsat kunne nå sine langsigtede vækstambitioner. Men vælger de forkert i Struer, risikerer koncernen endnu en årrække som "en bolsjebutik med et verdensbrand", som en kilde udtrykker det.

I det lys kan 2008 blive et afgørende år for det hæderkronede designikon.

I would not see it in such black colours, c1010:

It’s very Danish, the article: Partially informed (ie relatively quite well informed), at the same time being critical & praising & polite (up to a point, respectively), would-be-smart (from a perspective of an average Joe - I saw this term used elsewhere on this site recently, so I used it). Also, in a fine manner it serves a little bit of the traditional Danish self-pity to the (Danish) reader (Estonia and the Czech Republic are now going to be put to the same league as Struer and Aarhus!) ...

In short: Nothing to be worried about if you don’t read the language and nothing that you already don’t know from/hasn’t been discussed on this forum.

All in all a good article which apparently appeared in ‘Ingeniøren’ (Didn’t you know the paper??? -  which is why I love Denmark among other things) … it ends positively with a thumb up (to the new leadership, of course) under certain condition though, that is.

(Please, correct me - you internationally minded Danes around here.)

😁

Is there an English version?

Dario