Rookie wrote:

PS: The Olive 4 HD is available in the US since January 2010, as it is in Europa too ...

Wow in Europa? Wouldn't want to go there to fetch it though... 

😂

The challenge of feeding BL5s with a digital signal isn't difficult. One can consider a Y-link, but there are better ways. 

It's a shame that the BeoSystem 3 doesn't have coax s/pdif out, for BL5s, as it has a number of digital-IN options, and therefore could have served as a B&O-compatible master unit that sent a digital signal to the speakers, while also correctly processing signals from other digital sources, including non-B&O.

Because of that, I decided not to buy a BS3.

I recently had two enthusiast visiting, and they were a little surprised that no matter which source we listened to, I didn't have to change anything, all they needed do was press play to the cd-player/Mac mini/Beocord/Surround source, etc., and the music/movie just began. I've exploited a feature in the BL5s, as well as a Beomaster 7000 and a third-party soundcard.

The BL5s get their signal from three different sources: Powerlink; Line-IN; coax s/pdif IN.

Since the speakers give priority to an s/pdif signal if they detect one, I know that anything which goes from the soundcard will get routed to the speakers; and as the connection from the card to the speakers is via s/pdif, whenever I send something to the card it will "take over" the speakers.

And here's a neat trick. The BL5s open up their s/pdif when you press CD on your remote, even if there isn't a B&O s/pdif source connected to them, as long as you have the Powerlink cables running from the Beomaster I'm using to the speakers. As the speakers give priority to s/pdif, they ignore the fact that nothing is coming down the Powerlink apart from commands - and think the s/pdif from the sound card is a B&O source.

I'm therefore in Option 0, using B&O commands, with a Beomaster connected to the BL5s, but with access to a number of sources that have been routed through the soundcard, which has both Firewire, Toslink Optical and coax s/pdif digital INs, in addition to a number of analog connections.

Works very well - and I'm controlling everything from an iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch. Am using a Beo4 in addition, but could discard that. I like the heft of that remote, though.

Soundproof, is it so that the BL5's don't listen to the SPDIF at AUX?

I used to have the speakers in Option 1 - press RADIO, and they would take in whatever came through LINE-IN, and if there was an s/pdif signal, that would take presedence, even if something was coming down the RCA LINE-IN.

Then I got to thinking about the s/pdif out on my Beogram CD6500 and the s/pdif out on the BeoSound 9000. I knew that if you ran a an s/pdif cable from BS9000 to the BL5s, the s/pdif is what the BL5s use.

And then the light-bulb came on. I could trick the speakers into thinking it was a B&O CD source, when it wasn't. I could go to Option 0, use a BeoMaster, and run the s/pdif from the soundcard to the speakers, and the speakers would "think" that they were connected to a Beogram CD or BS9000, etc.

Works perfectly, and I get feedback as to level from the Beomaster, which is connected to and controlling the speakers with Powerlink. (ON/OFF, Volume)

Soundcard may sound confusing. It can look like this - the Impact Twin is the new version of the Konnekt 24D I'm using, from the same company, Think of it as a multi-YLINK, running a lot of sources to the speakers:

Puncher wrote:

I was going to let it slide but seeing as Soundproof has picked up the point -

Your continuing implication that only rich folk "get it" and that the brand isn't for "certain people" is at best patronising. If the store in which you are employed were based in the UK your biggest stock item would likely be Tumbleweed.

I can see the beauty in some product, I can see engineering excellence in others - the special product are where they coincide - IMO the BS5/BM5 combo isn't one of them. I said it at the time (and it's equally true now) to be a killer product the BS5 had to be wireless, i.e. today's MCP.

If claiming that a company whose basic surround sound system starts between $15-20k is designed for a wealthy audience somehow offends you, then I'm sorry. I could not have foreseen how basic factual information could shake someone to their very core. I suppose we should also lament Ferrari's abandonment of the every-man and pretend that coats aren't made for people in cold climates. All the better to avoid hurt feelings. 

If you don't care for the BeoSound 5, that's fine, but you don't have to repeat yourself for my sake. It's not the best solution for everyone. Probably not even the best solution for most people. I take issue only with claims of fact that obfuscate its capabilities or bestow imaginary capabilities on other products.  

I chime in because I'm a dealer with a stake in the company as well as an opinion. I have a broad experience with hundreds of clients in hundreds of situations and can generally offer sound advice to perspective buyers and people with technical questions. Will my advice generally favor B&O? Of course. I'm a dealer. It doesn't make what I say correct or incorrect and on threads like these my input is primarily opinion based as opposed to a thread where someone asks how many PL sockets a stereo has. People are free to weigh my advice however they choose and clearly some have judged it to be lighter than air. Again, with enough raspberry schnapps I've managed to sleep through the night. (-;

On the specific point of the BeoSound 5 as a wireless device. I have to admit that in the first few months I, too, believed that and it was my assumption that had it not been gestating in the pipeline for so many years it might very well be wireless. As I've lived with the product, though, my opinion has changed. Here's why:

Size Mostly it's to do with the size. It's a lot like Steve Jobs explaining that there's a sort of "sweet spot" for tablet interfaces. If you make them too small, certain things don't work on them. Too large and they become cumbersome. My biggest complaint with the iPad is that there's no comfortable way to hold the device without some sort of stand-case, which (as someone who studied design before becoming a snake-oil salesman) means that the design is inherently flawed, or incomplete at best. The BeoSound 5 is roughly the same size and to be mobile it would have to be perpetually balanced and situated to be interacted with. 

Actual Usage v. Assumed Usage This I wouldn't have understood until the product had lived a while in the real world. When you play around with the BeoSound 5, the interface is really neat. Even if you don't think it's the best way to do things, it's at least interesting and invites you to spend time exploring. The assumption is that you're going to use it a lot. The reality, however, is that once you acclimate yourself to the interface and establish familiarity you start interfacing with it less even if you "use" it more. This is because you may spend 2 minutes of less choosing a couple of songs or finding a radio station and hours listening to what you've selected. This means that you're not playing DJ every few minutes. And that means that the device's mobility is not nearly as crucial a factor as it otherwise would be. 

Speakers plug into what? I think that people roundly agree that wireless speakers are not good speakers at this point in time. So what would we plug them into with a wireless BeoSound 5? The assumption there would be that there would still be some sort of BeoMaster 5 and a wired dock. Not a horrible solution, but that adds to the cost when the benefit may not be worth the trouble. 

Beo6 This is the final piece of the puzzle for me. Even after you establish that the BeoSound 5 is not the best companion to move around the house with, you're then left with vacancy in the ecosystem. Link rooms are even worse than before when there are thousands of albums or radio stations to choose from. The Beo6 fills the gap very nicely and essentially replicates a high-end version of Sonos (a system which has many admirable qualities despite its price-sensitive execution). At the end of the day I'd rather be walking around with a Beo6 than a BeoSound 5!

TripEnglish wrote:

Puncher wrote:

I was going to let it slide but seeing as Soundproof has picked up the point -

Your continuing implication that only rich folk "get it" and that the brand isn't for "certain people" is at best patronising. If the store in which you are employed were based in the UK your biggest stock item would likely be Tumbleweed.

I can see the beauty in some product, I can see engineering excellence in others - the special product are where they coincide - IMO the BS5/BM5 combo isn't one of them. I said it at the time (and it's equally true now) to be a killer product the BS5 had to be wireless, i.e. today's MCP.

If claiming that a company whose basic surround sound system starts between $15-20k is designed for a wealthy audience somehow offends you, then I'm sorry. I could not have foreseen how basic factual information could shake someone to their very core. I suppose we should also lament Ferrari's abandonment of the every-man and pretend that coats aren't made for people in cold climates. All the better to avoid hurt feelings. 

If you don't care for the BeoSound 5, that's fine, but you don't have to repeat yourself for my sake. It's not the best solution for everyone. Probably not even the best solution for most people. I take issue only with claims of fact that obfuscate its capabilities or bestow imaginary capabilities on other products.  

I chime in because I'm a dealer with a stake in the company as well as an opinion. I have a broad experience with hundreds of clients in hundreds of situations and can generally offer sound advice to perspective buyers and people with technical questions. Will my advice generally favor B&O? Of course. I'm a dealer. It doesn't make what I say correct or incorrect and on threads like these my input is primarily opinion based as opposed to a thread where someone asks how many PL sockets a stereo has. People are free to weigh my advice however they choose and clearly some have judged it to be lighter than air. Again, with enough raspberry schnapps I've managed to sleep through the night. (-;

On the specific point of the BeoSound 5 as a wireless device. I have to admit that in the first few months I, too, believed that and it was my assumption that had it not been gestating in the pipeline for so many years it might very well be wireless. As I've lived with the product, though, my opinion has changed. Here's why:

Size Mostly it's to do with the size. It's a lot like Steve Jobs explaining that there's a sort of "sweet spot" for tablet interfaces. If you make them too small, certain things don't work on them. Too large and they become cumbersome. My biggest complaint with the iPad is that there's no comfortable way to hold the device without some sort of stand-case, which (as someone who studied design before becoming a snake-oil salesman) means that the design is inherently flawed, or incomplete at best. The BeoSound 5 is roughly the same size and to be mobile it would have to be perpetually balanced and situated to be interacted with. 

Actual Usage v. Assumed Usage This I wouldn't have understood until the product had lived a while in the real world. When you play around with the BeoSound 5, the interface is really neat. Even if you don't think it's the best way to do things, it's at least interesting and invites you to spend time exploring. The assumption is that you're going to use it a lot. The reality, however, is that once you acclimate yourself to the interface and establish familiarity you start interfacing with it less even if you "use" it more. This is because you may spend 2 minutes of less choosing a couple of songs or finding a radio station and hours listening to what you've selected. This means that you're not playing DJ every few minutes. And that means that the device's mobility is not nearly as crucial a factor as it otherwise would be. 

Speakers plug into what? I think that people roundly agree that wireless speakers are not good speakers at this point in time. So what would we plug them into with a wireless BeoSound 5? The assumption there would be that there would still be some sort of BeoMaster 5 and a wired dock. Not a horrible solution, but that adds to the cost when the benefit may not be worth the trouble. 

Beo6 This is the final piece of the puzzle for me. Even after you establish that the BeoSound 5 is not the best companion to move around the house with, you're then left with vacancy in the ecosystem. Link rooms are even worse than before when there are thousands of albums or radio stations to choose from. The Beo6 fills the gap very nicely and essentially replicates a high-end version of Sonos (a system which has many admirable qualities despite its price-sensitive execution). At the end of the day I'd rather be walking around with a Beo6 than a BeoSound 5!

 

It's not the fact that there are targeted at the wealthy that I object to, it's the implication that only they "get" the product or concept that I can't accept. While it is undoubtedly expensive it should also be desirable and aspirational - I don't see that in the BS/BM5 combo, whereas I do in other B&O product. If I repeat myself it's because you continually play the "it's only the wealthy that understand" card.

On the wireless front - again we have the confusion over the BS5 and the BM5. I'm not nor ever did say the BM5 should be wireless, only the BS5, a la MCP. I've had an MCP for 30 years and still enjoy it on the coffee table, or on the sofa beside me or sometimes in the dining room. A 2009 MCP with the display and control of the BS5 would have been a real winner. The size issue isn't an issue at all, B&O could have reaffirmed their design prowess with a nicely weighted, balanced and tactile unit and made a real statement. They didn't - personally I see it as a huge missed opportunity.

soundproof wrote:

Then I got to thinking about the s/pdif out on my Beogram CD6500 and the s/pdif out on the BeoSound 9000. I knew that if you ran a an s/pdif cable from BS9000 to the BL5s, the s/pdif is what the BL5s use.

That is a feature you do not get if beosound 9000 is "masterlinked" to a BeoVision 8, because I guess BeoVision 8 dont have data link 😡

Puncher wrote:

It's not the fact that there are targeted at the wealthy that I object to, it's the implication that only they "get" the product or concept that I can't accept. While it is undoubtedly expensive it should also be desirable and aspirational - I don't see that in the BS/BM5 combo, whereas I do in other B&O product. If I repeat myself it's because you continually play the "it's only the wealthy that understand" card.

On the wireless front - again we have the confusion over the BS5 and the BM5. I'm not nor ever did say the BM5 should be wireless, only the BS5, a la MCP. I've had an MCP for 30 years and still enjoy it on the coffee table, or on the sofa beside me or sometimes in the dining room. A 2009 MCP with the display and control of the BS5 would have been a real winner. The size issue isn't an issue at all, B&O could have reaffirmed their design prowess with a nicely weighted, balanced and tactile unit and made a real statement. They didn't - personally I see it as a huge missed opportunity.

I really am sorry if that's what's come through. When I talk about "our customers" I'm merely referring to people who are just that: our customers. They are not all wealthy. Many who buy in with smaller systems, including headphones & BeoSound 1s also "get it." When I refer to getting it and not getting it, I'm not using wealth as a measuring stick at all, only the understanding that if you care about something, you're likely to have higher standards, different goals, and/or an overall different approach than if you don't. I, for example, don't care much about food. I'd just as soon eat pizza every day as have some gustatory revelation. Sit me next to a chef or a gourmand and they're likely to look at my taste for burgers and cokes as some sort of character defect. That's fine! All I'm saying is that I also don't go onto foodie forums and talk about how a couple bags of crisps fillya' up just the same as duck confit.

So, you see, "getting it" is not a commentary on anything but a person's interest or lack there of in a given subject. B&O is not just an AV company, but also one of just a handful of genuine design-driven companies on the planet. Most companies that used to be guided by designers have vanished or reorganized. Braun used to make some of the most beautiful ID out there. Now they're indistinguishable from their peers. Now they have peers. So it's often through that lens that view B&O and possibly why there's detectable emotion in my part of the discourse. When a company relegates design to decoration and afterthought, they lose the ability to advocate for the user. They become feature peddlers without a concise vision of how their products play a role in people's lives. It's still possible for designers to get it wrong, but they'll never produce a product that's fundamentally empty of meaning.

So even when B&O releases what I personally believe to be a dud, it doesn't mean that I'm going to go out and buy Sony's "version" of it and that's sort of the prevailing wisdom. You'll notice that with a product like the Olive, I'm a lot more open to addressing it as a serious competitor, because it clearly is a serious competitor. It was likely made with a great deal of thought and consideration and is also aimed at a serious consumer of music and so takes their needs and goals into account. But if BMW make a car that you think misses the mark, you're more likely to look at Merc or Audi than Chevy.  

To me it seems like a lot of you guys in this thread has already "converted" to the big Apple. You're talking about what you can do with your iPhone, iPad, iPod, Apple-tv, Airplay, etc.. -or Sonos -or whatever. And why You wil not buy B&O anymore (except, perhaps, from speakers and maybe a TV).

Well -we're some people who don't have an iPhone (I'm doing fine with my HTC smartphone), and are doing fine with a PC instead of a Mac -and don't have to listen to music anytime, anywhere. (Have you tried to enjoy the silence now and then 😕 )
And guess what...I can live with the possibilities that B&O offers in the home. I do not need to  play music from my smartphone on my Audio-system at home (although I can do it) ...I see no problem in playing a CD now and then, instead of spending hours on ripping all of my collection to a computer/server/mediacenter. And yes -I do listen to Net-radio now and then -and I download music. I just don't want to throw away all of my CD's -like I don't want to throw away my books just because we have e-books. But -that's just me...Call me old-fashioned.

It's fine that you love all your Apple-gear and that you have made your own wireless home solution with that. But -what do you expect B&O to come up with then???
Seems like whatever product B&O will come up with from now on, Your response will be: "I can do that with my Apple/"i-whatever" already...Why should I buy this?"

Sorry -but I am not a "tech-nerd". What the f... is "PUC"? And "connecting ZP90 via Spdif" is jibberish to me. Maybe B&O just appeals to us who are not tech-nerds and just want a A/V system that  is easy to set up.

And @bayerische who started it all: Watch out!!! First your wife want to get rid of the CD's -the next thing is, that she want to get rid of your speakers in favor of some small ones, that you can hardly see (or hear). 😂