Sandyb wrote:

As for whether B&O have the enthusiasm to implement Atmos certification (more broadly than just the Stage), who knows.

I guess we will have to differentiate here:

It might very well be the case that the Acoustic Department has ‘the enthusiasm to implement Atmos’.

However, the Product Definition department might think different.

MM

Millemissen wrote:

I guess we will have to differentiate here:

It might very well be the case that the Acoustic Department has ‘ the enthusiasm to implement Atmos ’.

However, the Product Definition department might think different.

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Sandyb wrote:

Agreed completely

All I was trying to articulate was that it’s not clear that there is an incompatibility between TrueImage and Atmos.

Perhaps someone with a more technical understanding can explain.

I don’t buy the idea that TrueImage sort of does Atmos, sound image wise. And as just an up / down mixer, the overlap with the various aspects of Atmos are small

But again, maybe I’m missing something

I'm sure it is - and I'm guessing anyone with a 5.1 setup would appreciate the added value from height speakers.

But value added from height cant be Atmos (with up / side firing speakers etc).   It may well be more than enough for many (I can well believe it is), but it surely cant be the same experience as full Atmos (even if thats only 5.1.2). Unless one believes Atmos is predominantly a marketing trick.

Anyway, I'm never going to put in height speakers, so it's of limited use here.

Absent any real height speakers in their range (not sure the Celestials count), I'm not sure its really on the horizon for B&O anyways, outside of the Stage.

Meanwhile, I'll happily take a sound centre solution from them, expandable yes, and happy if its just normal 5.1.

Mikipidia wrote:

Sandyb wrote:

 

Agreed completely

 

 

All I was trying to articulate was that it’s not clear that there is an incompatibility between TrueImage and Atmos.

 

 

Perhaps someone with a more technical understanding can explain.

 

 

I don’t buy the idea that TrueImage sort of does Atmos, sound image wise. And as just an up / down mixer, the overlap with the various aspects of Atmos are small

 

 

But again, maybe I’m missing something

 

 

You’re welcome to come here and stay and test it out!

 

I know it’s not Atmos, but what ever it does is very impressive! It can somehow differentiate height sounds and always place them in my ceiling mounted 17’s.

 

Like two of these super annoying ads we have on tv with a doorbell just like ours and it’s too realistic 😡😎

Sandyb wrote:

Millemissen wrote:

 

I guess we will have to differentiate here:

 

It might very well be the case that the Acoustic Department has ‘ the enthusiasm to implement Atmos ’.

 

However, the Product Definition department might think different.

 

MM

 

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

 

Agreed completely

All I was trying to articulate was that it’s not clear that there is an incompatibility between TrueImage and Atmos.

Perhaps someone with a more technical understanding can explain.

I don’t buy the idea that TrueImage sort of does Atmos, sound image wise. And as just an up / down mixer, the overlap with the various aspects of Atmos are small

But again, maybe I’m missing something

 

No, there is absolutely no incompatibility between these two ‘things’.

As you also wrote above: there are other AVR’s that have support for Atmos decoding and also have some kind of up-/downmixing. All better AVR’s nowadays does ‘cross-upmixing’.

The TrueImage algorithm/processing was inventet and in use before Dolby Atmos was launched for home theater use. 

Where Atmos primarily is an encoding system that offers a bed/a base layer of 5.1/7.1 (or more) channels encoded as Dolby TrueHD (for blurays) or Dolby Digital plus (for streaming) with implemented data for the hight channels, the TrueImage was made to make the input channels match the layout of a given setup for better and more homogen sound experience in our rooms, especially when more people are listening. Please do remember that the first versions were made for the sound system in the Audi A8.

The Atmos soundtrack needs an Atmos decoder in order to handle the metadata/to place these sound objects according to the layout of the setup. A sound system without this decoder simply plays the 5.1/7.1 track after decoding to PCM from DolbyTrueHD or Digital Plus.

That means…if you have B&O Sound Center with a 3.0 speaker layout, the TrueImage processing will downmix the 5.1/7.1 track to a 3.0 track.

Other AVR’s will do similar, if they don’t have an Atmos capable speaker layout to work on.

(And if you have a 2 channel track, the TrueImage processing can upmix to a e.g. 5.1 layout, if you want).

So - two completely different technologies.

One may then argue that the other upmixers (the Dolby Surround, the Auromatic etc) can do a better job.

This will be a personal matter and - I guess - also heavily will depend on the speakers and the speakers layout and the room.

Thruth is, that B&O users with a multichannel setup in general are quite confident with what the True Image algorithm can do (rightly configured).

A big question here is, how many Beovision owners have (or would want to invest in) more than a 5.1 or 7.1 setup.

A question that a B&O product definition department surely will want an answer to, before saying……...go for it.

I see no problem for the Sound Department to make this reality ,if…..

MM

@Mikipidia

I have no doubt that your setup would sound Fantastic with Trueimage and ceiling mounted 17's will add a lot for the experience🤒.

This kind of processing were needed before Atmos/Dts:X were available in other systems also. Auro3D was a big thing then and now it is quite dead. Upmixer's can pick up some amount of "elevation" from basic signal but even then it is not mixed there. Example Dts Neural:X wont do anything for L/C/R channel balance and it is always as original from lets say 5.1 or 7.1. But it will do it's magic for surrounds and ceiling speakers and yes it is also picking up "elevation" really nicely. I always use Neural X/Dolby Surround if true 3d formats are not available. But mostly those will expand your 2d surround sounds to ceiling and you will be inside that "3d bubble" like in Atmos. If you have a rainstorm etc it will come from surrounds and ceiling and can sound really nice but in real Atmos it can do it only from ceiling and not a single sound from basic surrounds. Real 3D will add pinpoint accuracy on the sound field and as we know it is not channel based system. It uses different audio objects that can move in every direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2cD9CPLMyo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsLGDYLbqWo

If you have 5.1/7.1 or any lesser setup you probably have zero benefit for real Atmos. You really need to have ceiling speakers or at least up-firing Atmos enabled speakers. Stage in my opinion have fairly good Atmos effect with processing and partly upwards pointing drivers. It is not perfect but add's for the experience anyway. Most people would never put speakers on ceiling and even 5.1 is quite rare to see. Maybe that is also reason B&O is not having real Atmos on high priority for Harmony etc. But please let the customers have an option to choose. For me Beovision's are no go before they can process latest audio formats. I have even studied possibility to use external processor with Harmony to use it as  center channel but that does not seem to be workable solution.

I bet you would prefer to use original Atmos track in movies if you only had that option in Harmony. 😎

Allianz wrote:

@Mikipidia

I have no doubt that your setup would sound Fantastic with Trueimage and ceiling mounted 17's will add a lot for the experience🤒.

This kind of processing were needed before Atmos/Dts:X were available in other systems also. Auro3D was a big thing then and now it is quite dead. Upmixer's can pick up some amount of "elevation" from basic signal but even then it is not mixed there. Example Dts Neural:X wont do anything for L/C/R channel balance and it is always as original from lets say 5.1 or 7.1. But it will do it's magic for surrounds and ceiling speakers and yes it is also picking up "elevation" really nicely. I always use Neural X/Dolby Surround if true 3d formats are not available. But mostly those will expand your 2d surround sounds to ceiling and you will be inside that "3d bubble" like in Atmos. If you have a rainstorm etc it will come from surrounds and ceiling and can sound really nice but in real Atmos it can do it only from ceiling and not a single sound from basic surrounds. Real 3D will add pinpoint accuracy on the sound field and as we know it is not channel based system. It uses different audio objects that can move in every direction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2cD9CPLMyo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsLGDYLbqWo

If you have 5.1/7.1 or any lesser setup you probably have zero benefit for real Atmos. You really need to have ceiling speakers or at least up-firing Atmos enabled speakers. Stage in my opinion have fairly good Atmos effect with processing and partly upwards pointing drivers. It is not perfect but add's for the experience anyway. Most people would never put speakers on ceiling and even 5.1 is quite rare to see. Maybe that is also reason B&O is not having real Atmos on high priority for Harmony etc. But please let the customers have an option to choose. For me Beovision's are no go before they can process latest audio formats. I have even studied possibility to use external processor with Harmony to use it as  center channel but that does not seem to be workable solution.

I bet you would prefer to use original Atmos track in movies if you only had that option in Harmony. 😎

So what formats can the harmony and eclipse not decode, apart from atmos? I thought they have a pretty good capabilities when it comes to processing. Specs mentions:

Dolby Digital 5.1

Dolby Digital plus 7.1

DTS HD-Master Audio 7.1 and the underlying DTS formats 

PCM 7.1 multichannel

I miss Dolby TrueHD maybe but that's about the same as DTS HD MA I thought. But I'm with you that it would be nice to have it supported as the sound processor should be better capable of decoding than the TV it self. 

DTS HD MA is not the same if your movie disc/file is using TRUE HD. But yes it is lossless also and this can be managed by most players to decode and send it as PCM. No big loss here. Same has to be done on player or tv with current Stage&DTS formats. Stage wont make any sound with DTS. On lg C9 you can have tv to do translation to PCM but in CX and newer it has to be done in 4k player because neither will CX understand DTS anymore.

Funny that Stage know how to handle Atmos/Dolby formats but no DTS and Harmony the opposite.

Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are missing in Beovisions.