It's all very well talking about CDs but Tue isn't stupid. 9000, 3200, Ouvertures simple WERE NOT SELLING!!! There's plenty of interviews with him on the internet were this is pointed out. B&O will basically like any company, produce products that suit the market. I saw CDs disappear to ripping and iTunes wayyyyyyy back in 2002 at university. The older crowd that likes the traditional B&O of tester year can simply buy second hand ones from Lifestyle but a CD system in todays market from B&O could reduce their sales to beyond recovery for the company.

You must not forget, B&O is not a small company. They have about 2000 employees. B&O can't have too many "niche products". They have to be on time (more or less 😕 ).

With their size, B&O is no big player, who can sell cheap systems, but it's to big to produce just systems like..... e.g. LINN (160 employees). Small companies can try to cover a niche. If they sell 1000 systems a year, they survive. A company with 2000 employees can't do that.

And CD players for example are a niche product now, B&O has to go modern ways like streaming players (which can be paid) to reach the salary number they need

I'm sorry, and maybe I'm to old school, but when I have a look as the lokal electronic discounter - the shelfes are filled up with CD Players AND Streaming receiver (mostly bluetooth powerd speakers like beolit).

I believe, there's a place for a stunning new device that is able to handle both and for the regrowing vinyl lovers, with an phono-MM-input! Then its the part of the PR to sell this thing, and I'm sure - they will!

Paul W wrote:

Please do not talk about Blackberrys. I had one for 2 years and I couldn't work the damn thing properly. In the end it froze, locked and I lost everything including business contacts. I sincerely HATE that company as I lost A LOT of business on it! 4 years on, I still have my iPhone 4S and its been perfect - my MacBook lasted almost 6 years years with zero problems and roughly 20 years of use crammed into the 6. It was dependable and reliable and thats what I need for business and my own use. I'm loyal to a company like this who's product work and do not cause me worry or stress!

Millemissen wrote:

TWG wrote:

We have enought threads about this topic....

On that we can agree ;-))

MM

Finally! 😁

smuehli wrote:

I'm sorry, and maybe I'm to old school, but when I have a look as the lokal electronic discounter - the shelfes are filled up with CD Players AND Streaming receiver (mostly bluetooth powerd speakers like beolit).

I believe, there's a place for a stunning new device that is able to handle both and for the regrowing vinyl lovers, with an phono-MM-input! Then its the part of the PR to sell this thing, and I'm sure - they will!

Yes, I'm feeling and seeing the same. Companies like Pioneer or Onkyo even release NEW devices with CD-Players integrated AND streaming capability. And if you have a look at the competition of Yamaha (Musiccast even 10years ago and the new 2015 Musiccast) or Sonos, you have to wonder why B&O struggles to built reliable multiroom with modern sources. And if you ever tried out the old Yamaha Musiccast system or the Sonos solution you know that there is zero latency, no matter if you use it wired or wireless. The Yamaha Systems even can send(!) Bluetooth streams in case you have Bluetooth headphones at home or Bluetooth speakers.
So, there seems to be a market. And nowadays "CD" could mean for B&O "Blu-Ray, DVD, CD, MP3, FLAC... " playable from a physical round data medium.

The Moment looks like "Hey, we hadn't time to integrate that cheap chinese Android tablet good enough into the surface" - and it acts like a cheap chinese something. :-(

Nobody of the younger generation would buy that thing and after the experience with it, I'm feeling the same. If you need streaming from B&O the Essence is the best system today.
For Internetradio and streaming I'm meanwhile using a Pioneer N50 as it is more reliable than my Beosound 5. Unbelievable. :-(

I don't know if Tue is stupid or not, but his decisions are.

Well it';s just as well everyone doesn't like the same stuff or this would be a boring place. I am not dumb but love Apple products. I work from home and using a MAC it is much easier than my work laptop which runs windows, stalls, crashes and constantly does updates - in fact I I find windows really unproductive compared to the mac. All my friends have iPhones so it easy to stream to my system, one friend doesn't and he has had problems streaming.

So sticking my neck out - Apple is better because they control the manufacture of the hardware and software and it all integrates properly. The rest will never have that as they all produce different hardware and it is all different quality. So the reason why, we on this forum love B&O is for the same reasons I love Apple - I want stuff that integrates, is well thought out, good quality and works. not buying Apple for me would be like thinking I may as well go out and buy a pair of speakers from one manufacturer and and amplifier from another, cd from someone else. Anyway, each to their own, but very annoying when people start saying Apple is rubbish, its the same as people who say B&O is just philips inside, or it's all design. 

TWG wrote:

The Moment looks like "Hey, we hadn't time to integrate that cheap chinese Android tablet good enough into the surface" - and it acts like a cheap chinese something. :-(

I agree with you on the looks of the Moment / Jukebox. I do think B&O could have done a much better job integrating the tablet into the aluminum casing, maybe make it flush glass like the display on a Beosound 5. I'm really sure that folks would pay for a more fleshed out design. But I think there are more than a few members here who -- with recent software updates -- are very very happy with how the Moment is behaving.

Although I know for me I made the right decision with the Essence, I might have made a different decision if when I had a chance to play with the Moment, it had today's software.

Speaking of software, didn't B&O hire a company to outsourse the user interface of the Moment or something like that? Why does that seem familiar? What were the results? Or are the results the fast and furious software updates?

It's like déjà vu all over again.

Andrew wrote:

Well it';s just as well everyone doesn't like the same stuff or this would be a boring place. I am not dumb but love Apple products. I work from home and using a MAC it is much easier than my work laptop which runs windows, stalls, crashes and constantly does updates - in fact I I find windows really unproductive compared to the mac. All my friends have iPhones so it easy to stream to my system, one friend doesn't and he has had problems streaming.

So sticking my neck out - Apple is better because they control the manufacture of the hardware and software and it all integrates properly. The rest will never have that as they all produce different hardware and it is all different quality. So the reason why, we on this forum love B&O is for the same reasons I love Apple - I want stuff that integrates, is well thought out, good quality and works. not buying Apple for me would be like thinking I may as well go out and buy a pair of speakers from one manufacturer and and amplifier from another, cd from someone else. Anyway, each to their own, but very annoying when people start saying Apple is rubbish, its the same as people who say B&O is just philips inside, or it's all design. 

I had an iMac i7 27" with Mac OS 10.8 and it crashed from time to time like a Windows machine... my Mac mini with 10.6 also crashed. They are all just computers with software so it's in their nature that there are errors which causes them to crash. I have used Apple computers for more than 10 years and have the same experience with Windows machines. Apple only buys hardware components (CPU, Ram, displays, drives..) and if you know how to get your work done, it doesn't matter which OS runs on your machine. On my iMac I hated the glossy display so much... it didn't allow you to work in well lit environments and the USB-Ports on the back are simply a dumb move and shows that the designer don't care about people who really work with their machines and use external hardware... they even don't seem to care about comfortable using USB flash drives or harddrives. Apples quality and "spirit" is not the same as a few years ago... the death of Steve Jobs was and still seem to be a problem for the company. I sold many of my Apple stuff as it isn't better or more reliable due to my experience. But Apple users seem to ignore anything which could be negative about their company...!?

I know the truth hurts but some machines from B&O are just rebadged!
- DVD2 = Philips machine http://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=1241
- Beosound 6: Samsung MP3 player

Quality at B&O?
Have a look at the Made in China Beosound 3: I bought two of them, both dead after ~5 years of light use. And I'm not alone... the Beosound 3 has such a lousy quality. Just search this forum to see how many defective units are out there.
Beosound 5: Mainboard failure 2 times...
Even if you love a company and their products you can not close your eyes and look away if they're making heavy mistakes!

I would be highly interested how you explain to a customer why the B&O radio costs 6x times more than a simple e.g. Tivoli radio but dies after such a short time. If you use the words "quality" they will simply laugh at you and don't take you serious! As I said before: This is the WORST thing that can happen to you as a company, especially if you try to be "luxury", "quality"... at this point it simply is design and style but NO substance!

kai wrote:

Im not keen on the new products especially the moment for me I just don't like it, the other problem seems to be that they are discontinuing a lot of parts, which wont please customers

I think though that a lot of quality issues can be down to how the product is used, the environment it is in etc. etc. etc. Same with computers, I use MS for MAC Office software and it runs just fine, the macbook is connected to two monitors and enables me to work. My work laptop runs far more software and stuff so I guess is bound to crash a lot so my perception is that the Mac is better. Anyway as others have said, it's all been discussed before.

Like others I dont have any desire to buy new products when I can integrate other stuff into my existing B&O setup (i.e AE and DAC and iPad and I have wireless streaming, radio etc all over the house) But I hope that they do well. Cant help but think the move to manufacturing in China, selling stuff in Argos and QVC does cheapen the image but then if you have to do that to survive because your main products aren't selling in enough quantities because the price is high, because of the costs involved then what do you do?

Here's an idea - maybe the B&O logo should be removed from the PLAY range and they come up with something else to make it clear that it is a cheaper alternative? It has worked before take Rolex, Panasonic and Toyota?