Lee, you have my full support, the more we talk about this subject, the more Mr Troll wins points.

Again, all the moderating team is behind you.

Guy

cooldude wrote:

I suggest to delete the whole thread as everything has been already said and otherwise it just will keep going back and forth.

I suggest to keep it. This situation WILL come up again, and then it will be nice to point to some conclusion that has been (hopefully) reached before.

I would also like to see clear guidelines as to what can be posted on the forum and what cannot. I hope those guidelines will not read like "pictures posted by known trolls will be deleted", since I, as a normal user, have no way of knowing which of the new or old users are "known trolls". I haven't been here from the start and never were on the "old forum". I don't know what the apparent troubles concerning the "old forum", its transformation to the "new forum", and any background events after that were, and I honestly wouldn't want to know them either - but if those events are being vaguely referred to all the time, like in this thread, I suppose us newbies deserve a rundown on them as well. I also hope that any new users will not be classified as "known trolls" by some circumstancial evidence just because they happen to start their posting career controversially.

This isn't simply an issue about a bad advance picture of a BV10, which IMHO was deservedly deleted, and never was worth this ruckus anyway.

What a farce of a thread.

Still amazes me that so called die hard beoworlders will fight the last stand for total independance call themselves fans or loyal to the site.. what you are doing is far more damaging than the posting of a blurred picture that probably does the 10 more harm than good.

As a "member" I see no distinction between one who is bronze or gold or one who has posted once or a thousand, totally irrelevant and dare I say childish.  Had it not been for Lee or Peter aswell as the rest of the moderating team, this site would not be where it is today, simple as.  The site in its former capacity was dull and going nowhere except being confined to a death in cyberspace.  We are now recognised and welcomed in more ways than one.  I recall going into a dealer and mentioning Beoworld and being told that they did not recognise the forum and would prefer not to comment... we now have dealers posting on the forum aswell as hosting events for members and for the public aswell as having a "relationship" with the brand we are all essentially here for today.

We have a draw which is self financed, where members are rewarded with prizes that are unheard of for a site so small and a reconised network of experienced professionals that are in some cases more knowledgable than thier local dealer..  I wonder how many dealers have actually posted on here looking for an answer? Other niche or enthusiast forums probably do not have the same exposure as BW yet we have members criticising against those who are trying to protect the site? and a couple of ex members who have nothing else better to do but to cause trouble by posting on here because they cannot stand the fact the BW is stronger and better than it ever has been? As a member of another site which is similar in its makeup, they too had to go through the same form of moderation with the imminant release of a product which was key to the direction of that company, think Simon can comment on this? There was no where near as much of a fuss as on here other than a few grumblings.

The site has evolved and in my opinion has not sold out and I think it is very very sad that grown men are doing nothing more than throwing thier rattles around.

Peter/Lee - delete the thread if you can, its ridiculous at best and tragic.  Another thumbs up from me.

Actually I wouldn't want to delete it (though I do have the power 😜 ) as responses like mobeyone's and the others before it remind me why I spend a lot of time on this site. I am forever in the debt of Lee transforming this site and much appreciate being a small part now of a superb team. We endeavour to make the site friendly and informative and seriously try to make it a pleasant place to come. We do try to be as open and honest as possible and I am sorry if our efforts are not thought to be sufficient. We will attempt to do better.

j0hnbarker wrote:

No. I do not.

Forgive me Electrified if I am wrong here and you have gone under a different user name before, but my questions are framed within the context of a wider debate we have been having on this forum for a few years now about the extent that it is independent.

What's with the paranoid insinuations? No, I have not been here before under another user name. Seriously, no wonder you think there is something "withheld" if those insinuations are the knee-jerk reaction you come up with.

As a 1000 plus poster I have asked questions before and had responses, some satisfactory and some not. Fair play if you're satisfied straight away, but I am not, and still await a straight response to my straight (and non-ethical) question.

I really couldn't care less how many posts you have. That just means you're posting a lot.

It's okay that you don't find his answer satisfactory, but I mentioned before, that this IS an ethical question, and no amount of demanding a oneliner-answer will be satsfactory to work with, as this is STILL an ethical question, no matter how much you claim it is not. If there were clear-cut answers to these things, we wouldn't have to teach ethics in journalism.

I mentioned earlier on that I think that one shouldn't deduct based on this photo alone. However, if there is trend - a real trend, not one imagined - of course that is worthy of contemplation, whether one agrees with the trend or not.

vikinger wrote:

I hesitate to extend this debate as the issues concerning copyright are quite clear despite the convoluted arguments and complications raised in this discussion.

I don't know where you get the idea that copyright law is simple. It's not. Especially when we talk of intellectual property and the (sometimes) clashing with the laws governing the media in the various countries. Often copyright takes a backseat to "the common good", but this too depend on how much is revealed. Copyright law is a huge number of variations of grey, not black and white. And this isn't even considering that if one ignores the publication of one's copyrighted materials by someone else, one often - but not all the time (again depending), forfeits any claims to the material, seeing as one should have made a point of it to begin with.

[Deep breath]

What I'm saying is that copyright law is very difficult, especially when we consider that there are different laws in different countries, and when you couple this with the differing laws governing the media, then it's not exactly black and white as you suggest.

Anyway, the reason for this long post is that it pissed me off to be accused of being an old member under a new nick. I don't like ad hominems: It's **** poor rhetorics. Pardon my french.

Mobeyone

Each to their own, but without a range of opinions clearly and freely expressed, doesn't this site runs the risk too of becoming a little 'stale', as the old one clearly was in your opinion? Surely endless expressions of support lead in the same direction as endless hectoring of those in charge of the site - i.e. down a dead end street?

I think it's less grown men throwing their toys out of the pram and more grown men questioning what they see in front of them. You might not like that, but for goodness sake please at least respect the itegrity of some of the 'die hards' you refer to, who at least appear on here regularly whenever newbies need advice etc. That's being a good electronic citizen.

Edit

Electrified - sorry if anything was lost in translation, but I wasn't accusing you of being here before under another user name. As you had taken a particular interest in this subject I thought it worth mentioning that we have been here before several times, and that you might not have been aware of this. If this annoyed you, then that wasn't my intention....

John, Chill out man. Perhaps i could recommend a sit down whilst listening to Ian Browns new album My Way. 🙂