moxxey:

Puncher:

RussR:

A Rolex Daytona has been mentioned here, I keep mentioning cars, but someone else mentioned the BMW M3 already.  What did they cost then?  What about now?

 

When I was in Graduate school a Rolex Daytona could be had for $1,500USD.

Who cares what they cost or whether you (or I) can afford them! People buy them and still buy them. If Rolex charge £5500, people will pay more.

The problem with this forum is that it's gone really personal. If people here can't afford or justify a B&O BV7-40, then they are simply viewed as 'too expensive'. They then go on a personal rant over and over again, which we read every week, how they think B&O can't justify their prices, quality etc etc. So what? Do you think they should reduce the price(s) just so you can then afford and justify the purchase?

I don't disagree with that, I wouldn't pay nearly £9000, new, either. However, this is the key point: a lot of people are, so until these people stop buying, B&O will retain the price. It's basic principles of business. Most people won't buy Armani shirts, at around £120 per shirt, they are viewed as 'too expensive' by many and can't be justified....but Armani can still charge £120 as people still buy.

This would suggest that you think B&O are happy with how things are going in their market and don't see any imminent problems with their strategy. This to me seems at odds with what we know has happened of late - replacing the CEO, closure of retail outlets etc.

Ultimately how they manage their internal costs is the key. It depends how much of your £9000 they get to keep. If prices are spiralling because they cannot survive on the margin they are making then this is a real problem, if prices are rising because they think they can increase margin every year then this is pure greed on their part and deserves the comments made here and elsewhere. If there are purely passing on annual cost increases in materials and labour then this is lazy and, while it seems to have been accepted in the past, is now at odds with the rest of the consumer electronics market; whereas, previously, B&O products crept up compared to static prices from other vendors, we now have a situation where B&O prices are rising while everyone elses fall. This is a significant difference and one that I suspect is being considered (worried about) very seriously in Struer.

Without getting drawn to much into the marketing "segment categorisation" issues I think B&O has moved away from a brand which sat nicely with a "professions" income level and is heading toward the "top earners" band as mentioned elsewhere. If this is their intention then I am saddened but cannot influence theie strategy. I suspect however that this is not the case and that there may be some serious "re-thinking" going on in Denmark.

They get to keep a HUGE amount of your £6000 for your TV!  just look at the gross margin in the accounts- they have higher profit margins than anyone in the industry. But BnO like the financial services industry made money when the sun shined and now that strategy has changed

True, but this ia a low volume sector, if B&O didn't have high margins on each TV sold they would go out of business, as would any manufacturer of high-end goods.

Simon 

Hi Moxxey,

I'm on your side here.  My point was to take issue with those who seem to feel that the Televisions have recently gone 'out of reach' for the common man.  I think it only reasonable to consider pieces for which there is some close analog between the current line and the older ones.  As others here have mentioned, there really are no close analogs for the multi-channel, larger screen systems.

 In a similar vein, and as I'm sure TripEnglish would point out, some of the issues brought up here with regard to new technology panel TV's: B&O's strategy of trying to maintain it's profit margins on those pieces is indeed risky, and controversial.  The problem for us is to look at the issue from their point-of-view.  For several years various manufacturers have taken one of 2 paths with these TV's.  Some have allowed, or been unable to prevent, the sale of their panels through various channels, both 'brick-and-mortar' and online at prices far below the MSRP.  This has pushed the sale  price down faster than the cost, although cost has, of course, dropped dramatically.
 

Once something like this starts, it is almost always a self-feeding death spiral, and not everyone survives.  And it has happened in other market spaces for various reasons. I got to watch large companies get pushed out of the cell-phone boom in the late 800's and 90's, for instance.  Of late, our erstwhile heroes Sony and Pioneer have taken steps to get out before they are forced out.  Sony no longer sells plasma at all, and Pioneer has stopped manufacturing, and will rebadge panels, like most others.  B&O decided early on to take a different tack, and so did Fujitsu.  On the Plasmavision website, however, we see a huge blue banner 'Important Announcement' which directs us here:

http://www.fujitsu-general.com/global/news/2007/07-V06-29/index.html

Fujitsu, one of the originators of the technology, and an OEM for many other brands, has left the 'consumer' market space because they can't make any money, because others have driven the retail price below the point of profitability. 

 B&O obviously want to provide their customers with a 'soup-to-nut' single-brand solution.  In order to do that they seem forced to avoid the death spiral, and wait out the storm until the market corrects itself.

Russ

i don't think they're out of reach of the common man , i just think the competition has not only caught up , but utterly surpassed bno particularly in the way the whole av world has developed

it's all technocodswallop today not the hand built engineering quality that bno could play on in the old days

with turntables and other machines with moving parts they had a chance against the big boys as they always had superlative craftsmanship and quality products , that way they could differentiate themselves not just with their design ( which is just aboot all they have these days ) but with their handcrafted quality and attention to detail

 nowadays it's all oem outsourced 3rd party derivative junk , you can't blame bno , it's the way the market has gone 

just plug this chip into that circuit board and hope for the best 

i really have no idea what bno should do to survive in the future , maybe they won't ? 

I cant afford much B&O stuff, i have some A8s , beosound 2 and a old Overture / 2500. I dont think their Audio Products are overpriced at all, look at the high end audio companies, Nagra ask for £9500 for their CD Player , add some similar quality Speakers and an amp and you will be up to £20000 in no time.

Granted they offer better audio quality (probably not a huge improvement over 9000+Beo5) but B&Os stuff looks amazing and is more design orienteted.

Its a different story with TVs , i just cant see the current range competing with Pioneer etc, it just doesnt offer enough over them, sure you can link to other B&O products but thats just not enough imho.

I really hope they drop Beovision prices and that the upcoming Beosound 5 is well priced and handles media as well as some other competitors (sonos , apple etc)

I have a few thoughts on the point of price, for which we have conflicting evidence of (a) some saying it is too expensive, while (b) some dealers seem to be thriving.

I feel that willingness to tolerate current B&O pricing varies depending not only on your previous experiences with the brand but also your current or past level of ownership of B&O.

Now I have no idea just how much B&O each member here owns, but I'm willing to guess that most own a sound system of some type and some speakers, possibly a TV.  In contrast, all I own is a Beosound 2 and a BeoCom 6000, and I have BeoPlayer on my PC.

If you already have a lot of ownership experience with B&O then it is probably a lot easier to look down your nose at the current pricing for the products, while you continue to enjoy your B&O investment.  I understand and agree with you all, but dammit I just don't care.

For those that have only just dipped their toes into the pool, the urge to own something real and substantial is immense.  I want what everyone else has had but I haven't: the ten-years-of-audiovisual-joy B&O experience.  The experience you can't get at a dealership just wandering through randomly.  The kind you only get when you own your own home setup, big or small.

The urge for new enthusiasts to own some real B&O motivates them to ignore the cost that rightly alarms existing B&O owners.  So long as I don't yet own a home set up, I don't feel part of the gang.