Congratulations on a super stylish setup with magnificent equipment Marc.  I wish i could be in the same predicament one day :-)

Well done

Michael. 

Listen to these guys Marc, they know their stuff, let us know how you go once you've fixed your setup. :)

It's heartbreaking to see someone with such a good set of speakers and TV, missing out on what the BL5's can actually do, which is what i would describe as other-worldly!!

Another sad part is, that your dealer most likely knew exactly what he was talking about, but may have been trying to get as much money out of your pocket as he could, for the benefit of his own sales record.

Cool picture :-)

Peter Pan wrote:

Congratulations on a beautiful set-up Marc.

/ Peter Pan

Nice animation peter pan :-)

soundproof wrote:

Marc wrote:

 

Actually I found that the 2 (BL2 and BL5) work together quite fine. When BL2 reaches its maximum, BL5 steps in. The sound in action movies is massive. Much better than in any cinema. Luckily my neighbors are away very often :-)

 

 

Marc, I'm pretty certain you've been cheated of a very nice experience. Due to how a B&O system is set up, your BL5s aren't getting any LFE and are also not using the subwoofer much when you watch movies ...

Unless there's been some trickery in setup, all the LFE (Low Frequency Effects) and subwoofer info, is going to the BL2. It's kind of weird not to be taking advantage of 2x38cm subwoofers.

Which is why I was fortright enough to write that your dealer didn't have a clue if he thought a BL2 would be of use together with BL5s. For movies, you now have a 2x1500W BL5 setup, not 2x2500W. And that's why your dealer thinks you need the BL2s - no wonder, since the BL5s aren't doing anything at all with the information that action movies are filled with.

As Odd pointed out above, you have ONE active diaphragm on the BL2, with a 25cm diameter, that's 37% of the surface that your BL5's subwoofers want to work with, if given a chance, to set air in motion in your room.

You have a BeoSystem 3. Disconnect the BL2, and set the system up to send the subwoofer info to the BL5s - it might be a revelation.

 

Hm, I really appreciate your comments. Also It`s a very interesting discussion I find. My experience is that the BL2 and BL5 actually work together quite well. I also tried 2 setups, one without BL2 and one incl. BL2.

The LFE is massive in action movies. If really deep LFE is needed, I have the feedling that the BL 5s come in full to support the BL2. It would be interesting to hear what B&O sound engineers have to say to that. In the end is depends how BS3 was programmed by B&O.

I don't think the dealer was trying to sell an extra sub-woofer on the sly here, it may simply be that it's been hard for some dealers to set up right, because this isn't the first time in this forum that people have described how they've felt a need for a BL2 together with their BL5s.

There's also Marc's slanted ceiling, which may reinforce the BL2's impulses to take into consideration. But it definitely shouldn't be necessary to use BL2 with BL5s - as one who has seen a number of B&O set-ups, including those in Struer, I can attest to the BL2 not being used with BL5s, in a properly set up system.

There's a simple way to check whether your subwoofer is working during movies, Marc. On the BL5s they are pointed downward, and the impulses they create are conducted towards the floor and go into the room under the skirt. With each impulse, quite a bit of air is moved (at full throw 1.8 liters per speaker). You can feel that easily with your hand if you hold it in the opening between the floor and the skirt.

Put in an action movie, watch your BL2, when the diaphragm of that moves, you should also have an air pulse against your hand - if you don't, then the BL5 subwoofer isn't getting the sub-signals (including LFE).
If there is an air pulse, then it's still worth investigating why your BL2 responds first.

Two BL5s, getting intense LFE during an action movie, can shift 150-216 liters of air per second (!), making the BL2 blush with shame at its inadequacy in that respect. (At up to 60Hz).

I wrote an Email to B&O to ask an engineer to provide clarification on that issue. 

I could as well use the BL2 in another room where I have B&O equipment. But prior to that I would like to know what the optimal set up is.

Having done a number of installations... I can concur that a BL2 is of no use when you have a well configured system with BL5's. The BL5's blow the BL2 straight out of the water in every aspect.. power, volume, depth. And when listening to music the BL5's are fantastic and superb speakers where the BL2 tends to be slow with up-tempo music.

soundproof wrote:

I don't think the dealer was trying to sell an extra sub-woofer on the sly here, it may simply be that it's been hard for some dealers to set up right, because this isn't the first time in this forum that people have described how they've felt a need for a BL2 together with their BL5s.

There's also Marc's slanted ceiling, which may reinforce the BL2's impulses to take into consideration. But it definitely shouldn't be necessary to use BL2 with BL5s - as one who has seen a number of B&O set-ups, including those in Struer, I can attest to the BL2 not being used with BL5s, in a properly set up system.

There's a simple way to check whether your subwoofer is working during movies, Marc. On the BL5s they are pointed downward, and the impulses they create are conducted towards the floor and go into the room under the skirt. With each impulse, quite a bit of air is moved (at full throw 1.8 liters per speaker). You can feel that easily with your hand if you hold it in the opening between the floor and the skirt.

Put in an action movie, watch your BL2, when the diaphragm of that moves, you should also have an air pulse against your hand - if you don't, then the BL5 subwoofer isn't getting the sub-signals (including LFE).
If there is an air pulse, then it's still worth investigating why your BL2 responds first.

Two BL5s, getting intense LFE during an action movie, can shift 150-216 liters of air per second (!), making the BL2 blush with shame at its inadequacy in that respect. (At up to 60Hz).

Actually I did conduct that test you are describing. While watching a movie I could observe that the BL5 Sub was working, but probably at less strength compared to a setup without BL2. In Action movies I also observed at times when really s. th. is happening (exploding bombs, shooting, etc.) the BL5 come in massively. The bass the system then creates is just phenomenal. The BL2 alone would never be able to create such performance. Therefore, my assumption is that the BS3 normally directs approx 70% to BL2 and 30% to BL5. When the BL2 reaches its max. performance capability the BS3 directs more LFE to BL5.

Unfortunately, that would be so wrong - as it completely underutilizes the precision ooomph that's been engineered into the BL5s.

The BeoSystem 3 user guide is a little misleading, due to the illustration they've used for the Scene Display setup.

On page 20, you find the Scene Display illustration for the Beo5 (see below) which has a subwoofer in it, as well as the BL5s. But of course, that scene display is also valid for other front speakers than the BL5, such as BeoLabs that don't have their own subwoofer built in.
And you wouldn't want to tick separate subwoofer with BL5s, as that then sends the LFE to the BeoLab 2 (in your case.)

On occasion, I've been able to help friends properly configure their home surround system - it can often be very confusing to assign speaker roles, and a lot of people aren't clear on which speakers do what, and where to set cut-offs for the bass, given what their speakers can (or can't) do.
In your case, I don't doubt you'll get confirmation that one shouldn't use BL2 together with the BL5s - but meanwhile, you can check your setup.

Page 46 tells you how to assign roles to the various speakers, it's quite easy to do, with your Beo remote.