Thank Geoff for your through explanation.

So the loudness on my BS3 is like a "intelligent" boost. Something I have to try.

Currently I adjusted all my speakers to around 64db and the subwoofer at around 68-70db, I have already dialled the subwoofer level to the lowest and the BL2 is already set to "corner", and that is the lowest db I can get from the subwoofer. To compensate, I have tried to move the BL2 away from the wall as far as possible. Having said that, I am not getting booming so I am happy.

I am still confused with the "Bass" control....I guess I have to try and see the difference for myself.

Thank you very much!

Geoff Martin wrote:

 

chickenceo wrote:

While we are at this topic. Can someone explain a newbie question...

1) Loudness is suppose to bring up base at low volume level. What is the difference between turn on loudness vs bringing the subwoofer up 1 or 2 db higher?

2) What is the difference between adjusting the subwoofer db vs adjusting the bass level?

Thanks!

 

1a. If we assume that your subwoofer is part of a bass-managed system, which would mean that it's producing the bass from some frequency (typically around 120 Hz or so) and down - and no other loudspeakers in the configuration is working in the low end, then turning up your subwoofer by 1 or 2 dB will increase the level of the frequency range that it covers (let's say, 120 Hz and down) at  all settings of the volume control. So, you'll have more bass, no matter what the playback level.

1b. If we assume that your subwoofer is dedicated to only playing the LFE channel from a multichannel signal, then the effect will only be applied to the LFE channel - still at all volume levels.

1 - generally: A modern "loudness" function increases the bass (and, in sometimes the treble) by a different amount depending on the setting of the volume control. The more you turn down the volume, the more the bass and treble are increased in level to compensate for the fact that your hearing system's "frequency response" changes with levels. The quieter the signal, the less able you are to hear low and high frequencies... If you want to hear the same spectral balance of your music regardless of the volume setting, your system will have to do something to compensate for the changes in you.

Also, the typical Loudness function will increase the levels by a lot more than 1 or 2 dB. A current BeoVision television in its factory default setting will push up the bass by 12 dB and the treble by 9 dB - although you can customize these values to suit your tastes.

 

 

2. The answer to this depends very much on the specific behaviour of your particular system. However, generally speaking, a "bass" control has a wider bandwidth than a subwoofer, and it will add bass to all audio channels (if you aren't bass managing, this means that you'll get more bass in all speakers...) (Remember: I said GENERALLY SPEAKING - so please don't send me angry messages about a specific subwoofer and a specific bass controller compare to each other. You'll ruin the perfectly nice cup of tea that I'm drinking right now...)

 

For more information that might help - I wrote an article explaining loudness functions in general on link. This also shows some example response curves from the BeoVision televisions (the current ones have the same behaviour as the ones listed there...)

Cheers

-geoff

 

I always use loudness function and unlike perhaps other loudness buttons on an integrated amplifier, B&O’s loudness function is more intelligent and adapts to the volume so you don’t get a crude increase in bass all the way up to higher volumes.

seethroughyou wrote:

I always use loudness function and unlike perhaps other loudness buttons on an integrated amplifier, B&O’s loudness function is more intelligent and adapts to the volume so you don’t get a crude increase in bass all the way up to higher volumes.

I have the same experience. B&O’s implementation of loudness works better than others I’ve tried. To work well with passive speakers, the loudness curve would have to match the amplifier output and the speaker sensitivity. Staying in brand makes a lot of sense here if you assume the products are designed as a whole.

The gain of Beolab active speakers being known by the designers should make loudness easier to apply, plus now you have ABL to help.

I assume the BeoSystem 3 being able to know which Beolab speakers are in which position allows more precise application of loudness. I have loudness active on all my B&O.

That's an good question. I think it's room/taste dependent. 

In the store I always use loudness, it's a big showroom with hard floors and loudness really does what it's supposed to do, perfect. 

I now have Beosound Stage in the living room (waaaaaaay smaller than the store) and I find the loudness far too much for me. The bass is mightily impressive at low volume but draws far too much attention to itself so I have turned loudness off and it sounds really good. 

Same with my M5 in the kitchen, in the store loudness is great but at home it makes it all a bit muddy at low volume. 

I almost alway use the loudness function. The Beomaster 8000 is especially amazing at all volume levels. Right now I’m using my Beomaster 6000 everyday and for the courtesy of my neighbors who are Safe At Home, the volume remains low throughout the day but the loudness function is on. I’m running a set of M70s.

That's the first thing I turn on. One of Bang & Olufsen's strengths is that it sounds so great even at low volumes. 30 years ago before I bought my first b&o system, beosound 3000 and beolab penta. It never sounded good if you did not turn up the volyme. It was as if something was missing. Beosound balance sounds extremely good at low volume. The bass is always there. Think it the best I heard at very low volyme. Perfect radio speaker in the morning.

This has been the subject of a previous discussion not that it hurts to take it up again

I never use loudness - to my ears it always seem to do more harm than good.

Plus, in my main system, the BL90s seem to sound fairly reasonable without it... 😕

Dear Stereomensch,

I believe it is okay to use this feature. In fact, I recommend almost everyone to use this feature. After all, not everyone is able to listen to some delicate details in lower volume. Loudness enables us to enjoy those fine details more.