villarsch wrote:

It is difficult to understand why B&O have not adopted the latest panel and at present means that a 2018 LG C8?E8 appears to provide an improved visual performance at several thousand pounds less that the equivalent B&O.  Is the continued use of out-dated technology beginning to look like an unsustainable business model?

This is only a guess, but when manufacturers do deals for components there's often a minimum quantity involved. Perhaps B&O simply commited to the previous generation panel in a certain number and/or they have stock in the Czech manufacturing plant?

It might not be as easy as simply moving up to the new panel when there's a new release - remember that LG has produced something unique for B&O. It's not an off-the-shelf component.

villarsch wrote:

I have spoken to two dealers in the UK.  Both state that B&O are of the opinion that the latest C8/E8 panels from LG to offer a significant improvement.

That comment alone, if true, would suggest B&O are making another run of Eclipses, maybe called the Apoca-clypse. 

This opinion does not seem to be shared by some of TV's technical press.  It is stated that LG's Alpha 9 processor does improve such areas as nearly eliminating vertical banding, and there are improvements when  playing 4K Blu-ray discs.  There are also interesting bug fixes.  The contrast range is also adjudged to be a noticeable improvement.

It makes you wonder how much room exists for refinement in that technology? It did not take long for plasma's evolution, but LED has been a long run. 

It is difficult to understand why B&O have not adopted the latest panel and at present means that a 2018 LG C8?E8 appears to provide an improved visual performance at several thousand pounds less that the equivalent B&O. 

Interesting. Whether or not it is improved performance is moot to B&O. B&O no longer manufactures, so they surely buy everything in batches, as per Moxxey. How much they pay for panels is a function of how many they buy, how much value B&O bring LG, and how much LG does to the standard panel to make it B&O-worthy? I go with "they contract for as few as possible which costs a lot, add little or no value to LG, and get nothing special from LG in return". 

Another issue is who makes it "not just a TV"? My guess is the BeoPlay builder in China make the soundbar, so any change to the panel necessitates a change to the soundbar? These TVs don't change a lot or LG couldn't retool twice a year. The BeoPlay factory is also building by batch, which allows you to tart up and dump your dead product with special editions while prepping the new. Nothing wrong with that as long as the product is effective. 

Is the continued use of out-dated technology beginning to look like an unsustainable business model? 

The mass market knows the difference between good and great is not that large. Tech is too fast in the mass market to be a stodgy player. It appears Loewe and Bowers & Wilkins have taken very different approaches to avoiding that fate. B&O  is clearly stuck in the middle, but at least it paid off its gang of elites, and all without the burden of turning a net profit. I wonder who got screwed with THAT model?

One would think the only way that B&O can progress whilst using up excess stock of panels would be to cascade them to a new more affordable TV and upgrade  the Eclipse at the same price with new, better,screens.

Simonbeo wrote:

One would think the only way that B&O can progress whilst using up excess stock of panels would be to cascade them to a new more affordable TV and upgrade  the Eclipse at the same price with new, better,screens.

And what if this ‘new more affordable TV’ becomes a seller - how should they then deal with ‘excess stock’?

IMO this problem with the Eclipse will solve itself - sooner or later there are no 2018 panels and the difference between the 2018 and 2019 panels isn’t

that big....for the avarage B&O costumer.

How the h*ll should they know how many B&O-optimized 2018 panels to opt for - it is alway the same......too few or too many, seldom just the right amount.

MM

poodleboy wrote:

villarsch wrote:

I have spoken to two dealers in the UK.  Both state that B&O are of the opinion that the latest C8/E8 panels from LG to offer a significant improvement.

That comment alone, if true, would suggest B&O are making another run of Eclipses, maybe called the Apoca-clypse. 

This opinion does not seem to be shared by some of TV's technical press.  It is stated that LG's Alpha 9 processor does improve such areas as nearly eliminating vertical banding, and there are improvements when  playing 4K Blu-ray discs.  There are also interesting bug fixes.  The contrast range is also adjudged to be a noticeable improvement.

It makes you wonder how much room exists for refinement in that technology? It did not take long for plasma's evolution, but LED has been a long run. 

It is difficult to understand why B&O have not adopted the latest panel and at present means that a 2018 LG C8?E8 appears to provide an improved visual performance at several thousand pounds less that the equivalent B&O. 

Interesting. Whether or not it is improved performance is moot to B&O. B&O no longer manufactures, so they surely buy everything in batches, as per Moxxey. How much they pay for panels is a function of how many they buy, how much value B&O bring LG, and how much LG does to the standard panel to make it B&O-worthy? I go with "they contract for as few as possible which costs a lot, add little or no value to LG, and get nothing special from LG in return". 

Another issue is who makes it "not just a TV"? My guess is the BeoPlay builder in China make the soundbar, so any change to the panel necessitates a change to the soundbar? These TVs don't change a lot or LG couldn't retool twice a year. The BeoPlay factory is also building by batch, which allows you to tart up and dump your dead product with special editions while prepping the new. Nothing wrong with that as long as the product is effective. 

Is the continued use of out-dated technology beginning to look like an unsustainable business model? 

The mass market knows the difference between good and great is not that large. Tech is too fast in the mass market to be a stodgy player. It appears Loewe and Bowers & Wilkins have taken very different approaches to avoiding that fate. B&O  is clearly stuck in the middle, but at least it paid off its gang of elites, and all without the burden of turning a net profit. I wonder who got screwed with THAT model?

One may think about ‘the deeper meaning’ of your post, what he/she may (I sure do).

But you ought to keep things correct - and not just guess.

I don’t know exactly, what you mean by ...‘the BeoPlay builder in China make the soundbar’.

I am however sure, that you with soundbar mean the Sound Center of the Eclipse.

This is - as the BeoLabs manufactored in the former (now Tymphany owned) B&O owned factory in the Czech Republic.

I am pretty sure, that they can control how many Sound Centers are built - much easier than with the LG-built tv part.

There is a pre-production line in Struer for these things - when finished and ‘signed off’ they are produced/assembled in the Czech factory.

Not that I think, that it will matter much to you - but people should know, what is right and what is wrong.

MM

I think you’re right. LG have produced something special for B&O- It’s called a C7 screen.

I peeled off the LG C7 sticker off the back of the eclipse TV after it had been installed.

B&O have produced something equally special.

It’s called an absolute rip off where it’s hopefully, finally going to allow 4K blu Ray players and Apple 4K TV to show images how they should be seen several months after launch by fixing its soundcentre.

It’s a dying breed which will , I am sure cease TV production in the near future.

Complete disappointment.

Why defend a company which once again has released a TV which is nowhere near ready for Release.

Oh MM, your share options must be underwater. It's too late to do what Loewe seemed to do; just when things looked bleak, rumours of an Apple takeover surfaced and the shares skyrocketed....twice. An amazing coincidence. 

One may think about ‘the deeper meaning’ of your post, what he/she may (I sure do). Just the cynical ramblings of one who fell in love during the heyday of B&O and Mercedes and wishes for that again for both. No deeper meaning than a desire to succeed and anger that they might not. But I ought to keep things correct - and not just guess.

But you ought to keep things correct - and not just guess. 

I don’t know exactly, what you mean by ...‘the BeoPlay builder in China make the soundbar’. Yes you do. 

I am however sure, that you with soundbar mean the Sound Center of the Eclipse. Told you so. 

This is - as the BeoLabs manufactored in the former (now Tymphany owned) B&O owned factory in the Czech Republic. And Tymphany is a Chinese company so, unless your sources told you differently, the only agreement Tymphany had was to continue producing in Czech what was in place. 

I am pretty sure, that they can control how many Sound Centers are built - much easier than with the LG-built tv part. So they have control over Tymphany production and produce to order? Is there a special club for Chinese owners of former Danish companies? But you ought to keep things correct - and not just guess. 

There is a pre-production line in Struer for these things - when finished and ‘signed off’ they are produced/assembled in the Czech factory. How is that working out for you these days?

Not that I think, that it will matter much to you - but people should know, what is right and what is wrong. That hurts, especially coming from you. But you ought to keep things correct - and not just guess.

Quite a lot Eclipse owners seem to be happy with their tv.

Please name me a tv, that - from an owerall point of view - comes near to a BV Eclipse.

MM

I attended the dealer launch of the Eclipse and it still didn't have that "must have" quality of being good to look at from the back as well as the front and the interface was not that B&O black background with nice graphics. The start up did not have a sense of occasion and where were the curtains. I wanted to like it but it all seemed too compromised. Just my opinion? I'm not sure.