Martin wrote:

Hi, just a thougt about the "value" proposition regarding the Eclipse.

If we remember the Beovision 12-65 and cost of this one:

Beosystem 4: about 35.000 SEK

The screen 65 inch with mono loudspeaker: 100.000 SEK.

If we talk about value proposition in this case what do you think about paying 100.000 SEK just for a Pionner plasma-screen with a center-loudspeaker?

Of course the System 4 is made by B&O but I think this TV (if we want to value this) is very expensive/overpriced also.

So, I think all talk about that the Eclipse is to expensive is just because this is the first time that B&O tell the customer that one piece of the TV is LG and one piece is B&O. Before B&O never mentionded any other companys that they co-operate with.

A good observation and fair point Martin but the key difference in my case is that I would be buying the Eclipse brand new if liked it enough. The BV12 was always out of my budget, as were the BV7-55 and BV9 when new. I have bought and owned both these products but only second-hand. I have bought a BV7-40, BS9000, BS2300, 2 x Avant DVD RF models (one for me and one for Mum) and various other products spanning over the years brand new because I felt the price points were justified with value for money given a premium product experience. I would never spend c£16,000k on a television set no matter how good the picture, screen size, audio capabilities or wizardry as to me a television can never be worth such value. I 'might' spend that sort of money on a car (although I have never exceeded £10,000 for a car so far and I am 48 years old) and I definitely would spend that amount on a new kitchen, bathroom or something with longevity and value for my home. A product has to be worth the price, have value and 'some' longevity to me personally. Even at a second hand price of c£5k (for example) I still would not buy a second hand BV12 for exactly the reasons you give - it being simply a Panasonic panel, so I can not relate at all to the person who buys a set like that the new price, but that's just me and we all value things differently. Simon.

Yeah, value is only a transferable or comparable concept in broad terms.

I never thought about buying a new 12-65 for 14k when i first saw one, but happily snapped an ex-dsiaply one up for 7k (2.5 years ago) from a dealer...and at that price thought it was justifiable to me. And don't regret it for a moment.

And for that reason, I wouldn't give a second thought to someone buying a new Eclipse - everyones circumstances and value judgements are different, much as i think its price and implied premium is a bit harder to justify. But each to their own.

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore. 

There are not that many panel producers left in the world, so unless you buy a tv from Samsung, LG, Sharp, Panasonic (or their Taiwanese rivals), you may get a tv with a panel made by someone else than the brand written on the front of it - this even goes for smartphones, just look at iPhone. Which is the way it is today.

But most brands add something - it might be a picture enhancing tech like B&O VisionClear, ambience lighting (Philips), more expensive materials, unique software etc. But when a manufacturer put a display on the market from another producer, and you add nothing at all to the picture part - well, then you will get a tough job selling it no matter how good the sound bar is.

Do not get me wrong, I find the Eclipse a lot better looking in person and I like it - I just don't like the fact that you are reminded that the picture part is 99% LG every time you turn it on or use the remote to change something. To most people, unlike beoworlders, it will appear as an LG tv when you use it - as stated above: it will be a tough job selling it to this customer group. 

Roger

BenSA wrote:

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore.

BenSA wrote:

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore. 

The point being that in that case it was just the display itself, with the TV electronics handled by B&O. Here the entire, TV part is pretty much what you can already buy in the shops, with the same finish, from the same manufacturer without being charge extra for the privilege!

Chris Townsend wrote:

BenSA wrote:

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore.

It wasn't always so. My mum was a single mother and a nurse. She always ensured we could at least lease a B&O tv in the 70s and 80s.

Are you implying that your Mum's priorities were a top quality TV? Over everything else? :)

I guess this discussion about "value for money" is always popping up in different threads here..

Probably many of you are in the same situation as I am, appreciating the quality, the look and feel, the way it makes you smile when you use the products. It doesn't really matter if you can get better speakers or better picture from another brand, since the whole concept of a great audio video experience is unique with B&O. Just picking up a remote that is not made from pure plastic is so great.. ;)

But, I remember buying my first B&O TV, an LS5500, it was looking better, sounding better than the rivals, Sony, Panasonic and others and I was very happy with it.

The price tag was higher, but not even double the price of the rivals. Today the entry models of B&O are about 10 times higher.. Even if they don't want to be on the mass-market, I think this is partially where their problem is. They may have addressed this with the Beoplay range, but not on the TV range.. yet..

Just my two cents..

/Peter

moxxey wrote:

Chris Townsend wrote:

BenSA wrote:

Martin definitely makes a very valid point, the Eclipse is not a new way of doing things for B&O just that they have let the cat out the bag this time so to speak. Bottom line is B&O is for the rich, people who are willing to pay a lot for the name and prestige of B&O. B&O will never be seen as a good deal.....you paying for that feeling of being above the others and just the little bit more special. B&O don't want to sell their TV's by the truck load because that defeats the purpose of B&O.....it wouldn't be special anymore.

It wasn't always so. My mum was a single mother and a nurse. She always ensured we could at least lease a B&O tv in the 70s and 80s.

Are you implying that your Mum's priorities were a top quality TV? Over everything else? :)

When I was young I was sold off for medical experiments so that the rest of our family could have a B&O TV.

I have just ordered the new Eclipse 55" with floor stand and aluminium front. 

At the moment I have the Avant 55" first generation and many ask my why I would go from a true Beovision to an LG. 

I want the best. I want a true movie and music experience when I'm at home. And because I have a girlfriend that is not the same Beofan as me, I also have to make sure that the tv and stereo is easy to use.
And the Beovision Eclipse I think is great. The best OLED screen on the market right now and the best "soundbar". The Web OS I feel is better then the Android on Avant NG, BV14 and Horizon. 
I feel that the Eclipse will be great for Beo and their fans. The design is very nice and resembles the BV7. Sure I will miss the cinematic open and close effect and "cool factor" when the speakers go up and down but with that perfect screen, I don't think I will miss them that much. 

Pictures and review on the new Eclipse and the difference between the Avant coming soon. 🙂

//EA