RWST wrote:

It is my opinion that your dealer should carefully listen to your problem, and as his duty, he should report this to B&O headquarters. This is not a minor issue, as I understand this is not an isolated case.

Don't forget B&O is a public traded company, any cases such as "panel lottery" linked to B&O's image is more than a serious issue for those responsible within Investor Relations .

Thanks for your opinion and advice, I will follow this route.

I agree, "panel lottery" and B&O are an unacceptable combination, and I'd like to think that B&O will investigate the origin of the panel problems. BeoVision 10 sells very well, as far as I have been told, so issues like these should be sorted out quickly and early on in the product's lifespan.

KMA wrote:

Given how well B&O products are packaged, and the fact that BV10 can only be transported up-right, I am somewhat hesitant to blame the transport. If that is the case however, B&O need to do something about it.

Another interesting point is that when I turn the BV10 on, for the first 10 minutes (or so), the backlight is perfect. After the panel has warmed up for more than 10 minutes, the white blotches and larger uneven areas appear.

I've waited for 3 weeks now to see if the backlight uniformity would improve over time, as was the case with one BeoVision 10 owner who shared his experience on this forum. Sadly, there's been no improvement.

 

TWG wrote:

KMA wrote:

Given how well B&O products are packaged, and the fact that BV10 can only be transported up-right, I am somewhat hesitant to blame the transport. If that is the case however, B&O need to do something about it.

Another interesting point is that when I turn the BV10 on, for the first 10 minutes (or so), the backlight is perfect. After the panel has warmed up for more than 10 minutes, the white blotches and larger uneven areas appear.

I've waited for 3 weeks now to see if the backlight uniformity would improve over time, as was the case with one BeoVision 10 owner who shared his experience on this forum. Sadly, there's been no improvement.

 

The fact of getting a "cloudy" backlit TV for such a price is realy anoying.

The fact that it gets cloudy after 10minutes looks like a heat problem  of the panel. Do the panels use edge backlight or are the Leds on the back of the panels for local dimming etc.? If the Leds are behind the panel they don't have the same brightness level all over the panel surface as they are controlled according to the picture the panel is showing. This means that the Led area of a bright area on the screen are much brigther than the Leds used on the darker areas of the picture. I think this is what you see as "clouds" on the picture: The Leds behind the panel which different brightness levels. And if the problem occurs after 10minutes it could be the heat from the Leds that shine through the panel. If this is the case there is nothing B&O could do except sending the faulty panels back to Samsung and tell them to put those bad panels to where the sun is not shining ;-)

I hope my point is clear as my english is funny and a foreign language for me :-)

Thanks for your response and insight. Actually, BeoVision 10 uses an edgeLED panel, so there are no leds behind the screen, only surrounding it. However, it is obvious that in my case the "clouding" is triggered by the panel warming up. After 10 minutes, the lighter patches in the backlight are there to stay. 

KMA, you are right, the BV10 has been a hit for the company since it hit the markets, hence the fast introduction of the 46" as a second model in the range. As the BV10 seems to turn into a cashcow for B&O, I find it highly unlikely that they will ignore "your" case.

I am sure you know that you can contact B&O on their official site under customer service, maybe an idea to post your problem there.

Anyways, if you do go back to your dealer, I would be very much interested in their response/action.

Regards

This bad panel problem seems to be affecting a lot of LCD/LED panel why didnt B&O produce better priced plasma panels there reputation for using the panasonic panel is superb in reliability.

RWST wrote:

You are right, the BV10 has been a hit for the company since it hit the markets, hence the fast introduction of the 46" as a second model in the range. As the BV10 seems to turn into a cashcow for B&O, I find it highly unlikely that they will ignore "your" case.

I am sure you know that you can contact B&O on their official site under customer service, maybe an idea to post your problem there.

Anyways, if you do go back to your dealer, I would be very much interested in their response/action.

Regards

Yes, I sent a detailed message to B&O Customer Service yesterday. I am sure they are looking into the matter.

I was also very straightforward in asking B&O about their position regarding backlight "clouding": some manufacturers don't consider it a defect and dismiss it as "inherent to LCD technology" (Sony being the prime example). In my opinion, with regard to any premium brand, or top-of-the-line televisions of mainstream consumer brands, that's a load of cr*p.

My position on this is clear :)

It only takes proper QC, which, on the other hand, of course adds to the costs of a panel, and in the extreme means that about 10-20% of all panels manufactured should be trashed due to defects. However, the highest level of quality is what we pay for with brands such as B&O, so they must be able to afford uncompromised selection of panels (and other components) from their suppliers. 

There's an interesting article about LCD panel quality, pricing, classification and standards at:

http://www.behardware.com/articles/589-1/panels-a-carte-mura-components-dead-pixels.html

The article is from 2005 (!), and what I find amazing is that LCD panel manufacturers haven't been able (read: willing) to set the industry standard for a "good" panel to this date. There are policies and standards about dead pixels, but no recommended policy or standards for "clouding" or other varied backlight defects and imperfections, giving each manufacturer the opportunity to take whatever position they want on the matter.

As long as we keep on accepting inferior or defective panels, manufacturers keep on selling them. QC costs are may be a bit*h, but so is the negative publicity resulting from the lack or omission thereof. With that said, as this is a public forum, I hope this thread gets ultimately viewed as constructive.

I truly believe that B&O strives to operate by the highest of standards -- it is their lifeline. So I am sure they will sort out any and all issues with the BeoVision 10. I also hope that the panel backlight problems are not wide-spread. After all, BeoVision 10 is simply a magnificent new product line. 

KMA, your feedback from B&O would be very much appreciated.

And again good luck with your case.

Regards

KMA, thanks for your info. good luck to you.

Hi KMA,

Any response yet from B&O regarding"your" case?

Thanks in advance.

RWST wrote:

Hi KMA,

Any response yet from B&O regarding"your" case?

Thanks in advance.

Hi RWST,

Unfortunately no, B&O Customer Service have given no response to the complaint I sent them about the backlight clouding defect. It seems that no brand - no matter how high-end - wants to touch the subject even with the longest of sticks. This seems to be the industry policy.

However, I noticed the BV10 Service Manual is now online for BeoWorld Members - thank you admins! - and had a look at what it says about replacing the panel.

It seems to be quite a simple procedure, with only a couple of steps involved, and the service can and should be done at the client's home. That is good news.

However, I am still hesitant to go down the service road, until B&O indicates that they have sorted out the backlight quality issues completely, for a couple of reasons:

1) From the Service Manual, as I also suspected myself:

--

General considerations

- Correct adjustment of all parameters can only be obtained by using special test signals and equipment for light measurement.

=> This refers to the special calibration equipment and conditions used at the factory for individual calibration, or to an ISF certified professional calibrator with very expensive pro calibration equipment.

- Factory settings will give the best result.

=> Best general results, yes, but not the correct/optimum results, referring to the first consideration about calibration.

--

In other words this means that a serviced BeoVision 10 does not have the benefits of individual calibration at the factory, and the calibration to the optimal individual parameters is something we pay for in terms of B&O picture quality. The difference may not be much, but it's nonetheless a trade-off in picture quality with serviced panels.

2) With EdgeLED panels, which are generally more prone to backlight defects than conventional CCFL-panels due to their extremely thin structure and sensitive light-guide plate, there is no guarantee that the new panel would be better. There's a reason why Samsung, the panel manufacturer, uses automatic dimming in their edgeLED-TV's: when the image has dark content, the backlight dims radically, which hides most small backlight problems. This is mentioned in a few Samsung "LED-TV" reviews.

3) In addition, the replacement panels are shipped separately as single units from B&O or their supplier, and can easily be mishandled by the shipping company during transit. That is the reason why panels are usually shipped in large quantities from suppliers. The size of the shipment protects the individual units, and large shipments can only be handled the way they are meant to be handled. Transporting a single edgeLED-panel for example laying flat (and not in the correct upright position) is pretty much a guarantee for backlight problems caused by structural stress during transport. 

This is one of the reasons why there are documented cases of serviced edgeLED panels being even worse than the original in terms of backlight uniformity. This is also the reason why BeoVision 10 is packaged the way it is, and why it is transported on a pallet, securely upright.

From the Service Manual again:

--
Transport and handling

The product must not be transported placed on the screen.
--

In short, it's a lottery how a serviced panel will turn out.

I can try and live with the current panel with its backlight defect, if I stick to watching BeoVision 10 always in a well-lit room. However, having pretty much all the lights on at night when watching TV somewhat ruins the home movie experience :)

I'll try to squeeze in a meet with my dealer this week, to see if they have any suggestions, and what is their opinion on the matter.