BeoVision 10 bad panels

59 replies

This issue has already been in discussion earlier at BeoWorld Forum: /forum/general-discussion-and-questions/beovision-10-picture-problem#post-1894685

However, now that there are more BeoVision 10 televisions in circulation, I think this warrants another, closer look.

"Clouding" -- which means an uneven panel backlight that shows up as lighter areas or "blotches", visible especially during darker scenes and at lower ambient lighting conditions -- has been an issue with quite a few Samsung EdgeLED TV's using the same panel as BeoVision 10.

It seems we have a case of the feared "panel lottery" with BeoVision 10:

Panel lottery means that there are issues with panel quality control, and you either get a good panel (no backlight problems such as clouding), a "tolerable" panel (insignificant backlight un-evenness, not visible under normal viewing conditions) or a bad panel (clearly visible lighter areas in the backlight, which can be seen under normal viewing conditions in black or dark images as whiter blotches or flares of light).

I'm sad to say that my personal experience, and a couple of other cases, point to un-isolated backlight issues with BeoVision 10:

Case 1: 
Of the first 4 BeoVision 10s that my dealer got in January, at least 2 that I know of had bad panels: my BeoVision 10 (quite terrible in dim evening lighting) and the BV10 of someone else who I personally know. This would mean a 50% "bad panel" rate -- at least 2 out of 4 had bad panels in this case.

Case 2: 
The BeoVision 10 reviewer at flatpanelshd.com confirmed that he had seen 4-5 BeoVision 10s, 2 of which had significant backlight clouding (bad panels), 1 had insignificant clouding (tolerable panel) and 2 were perfect (good panels including his review sample). This has been discussed by myself and the reviewer at: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/flatforums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=655&start=10

Case 3:
the earlier "BeoVision 10 picture problem" thread at this Forum.

I find it very hard to comprehend that B&O, for a television that costs 3 times as much as the Samsung equivalent panel-wise, allows bad panels to reach their client's homes.

If quality control is done properly, this could be easily avoided: B&O could simply check the panel batches by feeding them video black in a dim room, pick out the bad ones, and return them to the supplier, and not let them go to the assembly line. Obviously this isn't being done, although this level of QC is what I'd expect from B&O.

To my understanding, B&O televisions undergo individual calibration at the factory, which results in superb colours. With EdgeLED technology, they should add a step to the process to check the backlight of the panels, as it’s crucial to dark image quality.

A few words about Samsung (the panel supplier): prior to getting the BeoVision 10, I owned Samsung 40B7070 EdgeLED television. I had it exchanged 3 times by Samsung's Prestige Service, before I got a good panel. However, the "bad" panels I had were nowhere near as bad as the panel in my new BeoVision 10.

Recent reports suggest that Samsung has taken a different position with their EdgeLED TVs, including the 8000 series, which has the same panel as BeoVision 10: Samsung no longer exchanges them as easily as they did when the model was introduced to market. Why? Probably because they want to sell out the stock before bringing the next generation panels to market, or because the number of exchanges has proven to be cost-prohibitive. This has caused an increasing number of bad EdgeLED models to end up -- and stay -- at people's homes.

Are we seeing the same with BeoVision 10? Bad panels supplied by Samsung to B&O, and B&O accepting them?

I wonder what is the course to take as a customer? I am hesitant to have the panel serviced (changed) by the local B&O service for two reasons:

1) In light of the (seemingly alarming) percentage of bad panels out there, I might end up getting even a worse one, or a panel that is no improvement.

2) B&O service centers do not have the same instruments to individually calibrate the panel's picture to perfection (to B&O standards) as the factory does. Different batches of the same panel have some variation between them, and without factory-standard calibration equipment, picture reproduction of a serviced panel may fall short of B&O's standards (where my TV currently shines, apart from the backlight issue). Case in point: I had a BeoVision 3 tube changed a few years back, and it was never as good as the factory fitted & calibrated one.

Taking the TV back to my dealer is not an option, as I don't think my dealer would go for it, and -- moreover -- BeoVision 10 is the television I like most in the B&O range, so going for another model does not suit me. Exchanging the television for a new one from the factory is a risky option for both me and my dealer: there are no guarantees that the new one would be better, and going down this road might be cost-prohibitive for the dealer.

What are your experiences with your panels? I think there are a few BeoVision 10 owners here. How does your television's backlight (dark images, such as night scenes in a movie) look in the evening or dimmed lighting often preferred for enjoying movies? Evenly black, or with blotches of light shining through?

I've never seen backlight issues with other B&O LCD television models (such as BeoVision 7 which I’ve owned), and I do think they are unacceptable with BeoVision 10, given the brand and the price.

This is a long post, but I'm very perplexed by the situation.

 

 

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macsat wrote:

 

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Hmm... The deleted post is quite the teaser ;)

I would expect B&O to offer an immediate replacement - mine was fine from day 1.

My B&O Icons:

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Beovox.png Beovox.png
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Beotime.png Beotime.png
Beosound-Stage.png Beosound-Stage.png
Beosound-Moment.png Beosound-Moment.png
Beosound-5.png Beosound-5.png
Beosound-2.png Beosound-2.png
Beoremote-One.png Beoremote-One.png
Beoplay-Portal.png Beoplay-Portal.png
Beoplay-Earset.png Beoplay-Earset.png
Beomaster.png Beomaster.png
Beolit.png Beolit.png
Beogram-400x.png Beogram-400x.png
Beocenter-2.png Beocenter-2.png

My experience is that my BV10 has got some clouding issues. But it is not visible when watching a movie, only before or after the start of a movie. When there is an all black pause in a movie I can´t see any cloding.

I am very happy with the picture!

The picture should be perfect! Some clouding is not acceptable on a 6K euro tv!

If you read the Gizmodo threads about bad Apple 27" iMac's they are describing an issue where the LED backlight film is getting wrinkles in it during transport.  This could explain why finished units seem fine a the factory but then have problems at the final location?  One reader even explained how he took his 27" iMac apart and fixed the problem.  Sounds somewhat similar?

Hi KMA,

Thanks for posting this thread. Sorry to hear you are having a bad experience with your BV10.

I find it amazing that "panel lottery" phenomenon is even possible for a "prestigious" brand like B&O!

One would expect that a tv purchased from B&O, or any product for that matter, should be without defects. In addition, from a company like B&O one should expect/get more than decent after service/sales.

Myself, I am eagerly waiting to purchase the expected BV10-46", but will definitely make sure to discuss replacement terms in case of any "clouding" on the screen. I will even print your post to clarify my conditions.

Your point is absolutely valid, any backlight issues is absolutely unacceptable with the BV10, given the brand and price.

Good luck with your BV10

expoman wrote:

If you read the Gizmodo threads about bad Apple 27" iMac's they are describing an issue where the LED backlight film is getting wrinkles in it during transport.  This could explain why finished units seem fine a the factory but then have problems at the final location?  One reader even explained how he took his 27" iMac apart and fixed the problem.  Sounds somewhat similar?

I'll have a look at the Gizmondo threads...

Given how well B&O products are packaged, and the fact that BV10 can only be transported up-right, I am somewhat hesitant to blame the transport. If that is the case however, B&O need to do something about it.

Another interesting point is that when I turn the BV10 on, for the first 10 minutes (or so), the backlight is perfect. After the panel has warmed up for more than 10 minutes, the white blotches and larger uneven areas appear.

I've waited for 3 weeks now to see if the backlight uniformity would improve over time, as was the case with one BeoVision 10 owner who shared his experience on this forum. Sadly, there's been no improvement.

 

It is my opinion that your dealer should carefully listen to your problem, and as his duty, he should report this to B&O headquarters. This is not a minor issue, as I understand this is not an isolated case.

Don't forget B&O is a public traded company, any cases such as "panel lottery" linked to B&O's image is more than a serious issue for those responsible within Investor Relations .

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