Great to get to the bottom of a long time intermittent fault, thanks for sharing.

Michael,

Thank you for a very comprehensive posting on your experience with your BeoSound 9000 Mark 3. It was more interesting than usual because about 3 months ago I had a mark 3 unit with the same problem symptoms and the problem was also cracked solder joints.

The moral of your story is check carefully before purchasing a new laser unit..

Have other members come across cracked solder joints described by Michael ?

What's fascinating about this is it technically means that long term the Mk II are the better ones to have over the Mk IIIs if it's true that the CDM12 parts are easier to source. What's CONFUSING about it is that I thought that if you had B&O service a MK II unit they would "upgrade" it to be a Mk III which I assume means they install a VAM1250, no? 

Given the cost difference between Mk II and III players this is some food for thought to say the least.

And it gets even more complicated.....

Concerning the laser replacement repair of a BeoSound 9000 Mk II (Type 2563) unit by a B&O service shop, Playdrv4me is correct in that one will receive a new complete VAM1250 laser assembly as well as a new VAM1250 compatible logic board to support it. The original Mk II / CDM12.4 logic board is removed and disposed of along with the defective Mk II CDM12.4 laser. This, aside from the extra red power button on the MK II, converts your Mk II unit to a MK III (Type 2573).

I know this for a fact because when I went down to Atlantic Systems here in Massachusetts (my local B&O authorized service center), I purchased the "drop-in" Mk III laser kit for $180.00 while I was quoted a price of  approximately $270.00 for the MK II kit. The higher price covered the cost of the logic board. It was Mark, the owner of Atlantic Systems, who shared with me the dire predictions on the diminishing availability of the original Philips VAM1250 Laser kits and how B&O had purchased the last of the Philips production. He stressed that when these are gone, that is the end of them!

Add to that my attempt to replace the Mk III laser-only with a "different looking" eBay sourced  VAM1250 and its subsequent complete failure, the long-term future does not look too good for we Mk III owners!

However, I decided after hearing the $270.00 price of the Mk II Kit to give that repair job a shot with an eBay sourced CDM12.4 laser-only change-out at about $20.00 in cost. I had already done the eBay VAM1250 laser only change-out on my Mk III (which failed to correct the problems) so I knew how to do it correctly. I thought, since I've figured out how to do it, why not give it a try and possibly save $250.00 or so. But this gets complicated too in that I had actually ordered 2 different CDM12.4 lasers from 2 different eBay suppliers. The first CDM12.4  that I installed in my Mk II  worked but was skipping tracks on one of my CD's which did not skip on my BeoSound 3000 unit. It would only skip on that particular (Lilly Allen) CD and on the very last track. I admit that it did have some scratches on the outer perimeter but why was it not skipping on my BS 3000? Although my first repair attempt "worked" for the most part, I decided to remove it and try the other CDM12.4 from a different eBay supplier in order to assure perfection in my final outcome and to conduct and experiment of sorts.

After once again removing the 1st eBay laser, I placed all three (the two eBay sourced along with the B&O original) CDM12.4's side by side, I noticed a subtle difference in the eBay unit that I had just removed from the old original B&O laser and the eBay one that I was going to install next... It had a slightly different printing of the part number on the tail of the flex connector. The eBay unit that I was prepared to install (and ended up working beautifully), was identical in every way to the original indicating to me that it was definitely a Philips CDM12.4. Or at least a superior copy. (And it confirmed that not all CDM12.4 eBay sourced replacements are alike).

So, I moved ahead with installing this laser-only CDM12.4 piece into the Mk II and it was a complete success. It went through the post-repair Test Modes 71 and 73 the first time. I ran the unit for days with many different CD's and I couldn't have asked for a more satisfactory outcome. It was rock solid! Better yet, I was able to confirm that certain eBay sourced CDM12.4 laser units worked to repair Mk II units and that I could have an abundant and inexpensive source should a repair be necessary long into the future. Something that it appears will not be possible for the VAM1250 Mk III's.

In the end of all of this Mk II and MK III "experimenting", I've concluded that it would not be wise to convert our BeoSound 9000 Mk II's from the original (and inexpensively available) CDM12.4 lasers to the "upgrade" VAM1250's. To do so - at least from my perspective - is to limit ourselves to a much more expensive repair path and one that may someday be completely extinct.

I hope that my observations and experiences are helpful to my fellow BeoSound 9000 owners.

Michael

But I guess there's another perspective here as well, and that is that if in-fact the majority of these laser replacements on Mk IIIs have been due to the cracked solder points on the VAM1250 laser, then perhaps many replacements were unnecessary in the first place, and the 1250 unit is a long lived unit otherwise. I mean really let's be honest, all of this CD replacement is absolutely ludicrous in this millenium. The art of compact disc players was mastered two decades ago and we're still replacing lasers on these modern machines when I can pull out a Sony Discman or even a no name CD player from 1990 that's been dropped, jostled, gotten wet and generally abused and it still plays fine. I have to wonder why these Philips units are so damned sensitive. Perhaps the answer is that the laser part itself isn't the culprit so much as the assembly/solder points. We won't really have an answer to this until a bigger sample of owners chimes in with their findings, of course, and it is all speculation at this point.

Not to muddy the water further, but it almost makes you wonder if buying at least one "spare" VAM1250 from Atlantic is worth doing at the current time and just stashing it away for whenever the time comes that it's needed. Of course, if cracked solder joints are in-fact the problem, then that could just as well to happen to one in storage as one sitting in the player. They (and the players themselves), should probably be kept in environments with fairly stable climate control I would suspect.

All excellent points Playdrv4me! Especially your first paragraph.

And yes, aside from the obvious and photo-documented solder joint cracks at the VAM1250 laser diode, much of what I present  is speculation that is not supported by a large enough sample of repair jobs.

A great point also on the high failure rate of BeoSound 9000 lasers, be it Mk II's or Mk III's. I've been playing CD's and owned CD players since they were introduced in 1982 and I never had a unit fail. I believe my home players were all Sony players prior to my becoming a B&O crazed collector / user. But when one considers the old Discmans, and our automobile systems, etc., my personal (and friend / family) CD player failure rate was non-existent.

In viewing the VAM1250 cracks through my various powered loops, I was really shocked at the fact that all 6 solder points had cracked and the extreme nature of the cracks themselves. I too wonder if the vast majority of VAM1250 / Mk III failures are due to this after all and that the laser diodes are not what is failing.

Now that we have some documented disclosure of a "source" of failure, perhaps this can contribute to the stemming of the depletion of original B&O / Philips replacement kits along with unnecessary work and related costs.

As far as re-flowing solder joints in general, there has been much advice contributed here on BeoWorld by the resident "gurus". Aside from being advised to always check thoroughly for them on any repair job, I believe that one adviser (Martin / Dillen?) recommended that a solder with a small amount of silver would help to strengthen the joints. To re-flow what is seen in my photo will also require loop glasses and a very small iron tip as the actual size of that solder rail is much, much smaller then it looks here.

Michael

Michael Sean wrote:

A great point also on the high failure rate of BeoSound 9000 lasers, be it Mk II's or Mk III's. I've been playing CD's and owned CD players since they were introduced in 1982 and I never had a unit fail. I believe my home players were all Sony players prior to my becoming a B&O crazed collector / user. But when one considers the old Discmans, and our automobile systems, etc., my personal (and friend / family) CD player failure rate was non-existent.

This is one of the things that puzzled me as well when I started with B&O about 6 years ago. I bought my first CD (Sony CDP-30) in 1985 and it was in active use until I got my BS6500. I never did anything else to it than cleaned the tray limit switch once. It's now at the summer house and spends about 6 months basically out in the cold each winter (no heating whatsoever), and each spring starts playing as if nothing happened.

Frankly it's very rarely the laser itself that fails in earlier B&O players, but the units on the whole seem curiously failure prone.

What I find most hilarious of all is that this tremendously complex and incredibly unique clamper contraption and all of its associated running gear are rather rarely the problem, yet the part with technology that's been around a good 30 years breaks with alarming frequency!

In any case, you are to be commended for asking the simple question of "why" with your thorough research, Michael. I was frankly a little surprised that at least from what I've experienced here, it had just been accepted as par for the course that this problem just existed.

This is a very interesting thread. It would be great if the laser failure was down to cracked solder joints but we need to get some more failed units to check this out.