Beograms vs other decks.

27 replies

Back in the day (70's/80's), B&O seemed to have made a business selling their cartridges separately for use with any (brand) turntable, at least in the US market. Their cartridges came with a universal phono adaptor for use with non-B&O tables. They also advertised just their cartridge line-up in audio magazines. I still have a one of those ads somewhere. I'm wondering, was this just a US market thing, or did they do this in all markets? Because of this, I've never considered B&O cartridges to be "optimized" for just B&O tables. That's just IMHO though! :)

I still have a review of the Beogram 8000, when it first came out by the US magazine Stereo Review. It's been a long time since I've read the article, but I remember it being a very positive review, and that they ranked it up there among the best of tables. In addition to giving their opinion, I think they also ran it through their "lab" test, reporting the tech spec results from the test. I'll have to dig around and see if I can find that article. It was a good read!

DMacri wrote:
Peter wrote:

 

The bass extension is much better than any other Beogram - I have a good 4000 which the 3000 took over from - and it is simply better even with an SP2 cartridge, admittedly with a custom stylus from Axel/Frede. The 4000 is easier to use, better looking and very shock resistant and I love it. But the 3000 is a better sounding deck by a country mile even to my ageing ears!

 

Peter

 

 

 

This is something I always wondered about. How does the turntable positively affect the presence or lack of bass? I would think the most influence in the audio signal, in order, would be the cartridge, the tone arm, the suspension, and then the platter/motor system. I realize there is a natural resonance to the cartridge/tone arm system to be accounted for, so the compliance, and weight of each part must be in harmony. Even then, I would think you would be looking to ensure there is nothing added to the signal by the base of the turntable - no speed variation, rumble, or noise from the motor being transferred to the record surface. I have read about this in audio magazines for years, but I just don't understand the physics involved.

I actually agree with you - although I find MMC cartridges actually sound pretty similar except for the lower models which are more likely to demonstrate sibilance. I have no idea why decks sound different though in the case of the 4000 and 3000 I think the record support must have some relevance. All my Beograms apart from the 3000 sound remarkably similar. I definitely could not tell them apart in a blind test with any confidence.  I actually wondered whether the 3000 was actually demonstrating a resonance at lower frequencies giving the impression of better bass but I don't think so.

My B&O Icons:

BeoCenter-9500.png BeoCenter-9500.png
Beoremote-Beo4.png Beoremote-Beo4.png
Beovox.png Beovox.png
Beovision-11.png Beovision-11.png
Beotime.png Beotime.png
Beosound-Stage.png Beosound-Stage.png
Beosound-Moment.png Beosound-Moment.png
Beosound-5.png Beosound-5.png
Beosound-2.png Beosound-2.png
Beoremote-One.png Beoremote-One.png
Beoplay-Portal.png Beoplay-Portal.png
Beoplay-Earset.png Beoplay-Earset.png
Beomaster.png Beomaster.png
Beolit.png Beolit.png
Beogram-400x.png Beogram-400x.png
Beocenter-2.png Beocenter-2.png
I am suffering déjà vu!

Many years ago, in the late 70s/early 80s there was a major re-think on record playing which was led by the supporters of the Linn Sondek. They argued that the principal determinant of the quality of the reproduction of a record was not the cartridge or the pickup arm but the turntable itself. This view gained huge credibility and was one aspect of what was termed generically as the 'subjectivity' debate. Scientific and objective measurement of technical and electronic performance meant little - it was the ears that mattered most. A whole new dictionary of terms, most of which were pretty meaningless, came into use to describe the sound quality of particular pieces of equipment.

Just before this debate really started I had a Beogram 4000 with the original SP15. This cartridge was highly regarded by the saner elements of the HiFi press and was often used in an SME 3009 arm, considered at the time to be probably the best pick up arm in the world. I arranged with a local dealer for a direct comparison between my Beogram and a Thorens 125 fitted with an SME arm and SP15. I appreciate this wasn't a blind test but I was listening without any preconceived ideas as to which would sound better.

I listened for over two hours to a selection of music I knew well through some decent amplification and a pair of very revealing hybrid electrostatic speakers (B&W DM70s).

I remember the Thorens SME combination as being 'better' but not to the point where I wanted to ditch the Beogram. Overall the Beogram offered more - out of the box set up, excellent ergonomics and design and very acceptable music reproduction.

Two years later I bought a Linn - but regretted it after 12 months of constantly worrying about whether it was set up properly. Even though it had the classic suspended sub-chassis and belt drive like the Beogram it wasn't as well insulated fro external vibrations and I spent a small fortune on spiked tables and goodness knows what in an effort to isolate it properly

My experience - and it probably says more about me than about turntables - is that the more you worry about this stuff the less you enjoy the music. And that is, after all, what this is about. I enjoy my music more with B&O because I stop worrying about the equipment.

Cleve

Agree with you and one of the reasons I have B&O. However the 3000 has no complex suspension - I have mine mounted on a sturdy shelf attached to a stone wall so it is immune to vibration - the 4000 is far prettier though and much easier to use.

My B&O Icons:

BeoCenter-9500.png BeoCenter-9500.png
Beoremote-Beo4.png Beoremote-Beo4.png
Beovox.png Beovox.png
Beovision-11.png Beovision-11.png
Beotime.png Beotime.png
Beosound-Stage.png Beosound-Stage.png
Beosound-Moment.png Beosound-Moment.png
Beosound-5.png Beosound-5.png
Beosound-2.png Beosound-2.png
Beoremote-One.png Beoremote-One.png
Beoplay-Portal.png Beoplay-Portal.png
Beoplay-Earset.png Beoplay-Earset.png
Beomaster.png Beomaster.png
Beolit.png Beolit.png
Beogram-400x.png Beogram-400x.png
Beocenter-2.png Beocenter-2.png

Excellant summary Cleve!

That is exactly the thinking behind the Tangentials. Make the customer as comfortable and at ease as possible because the machine takes care of everything.

If you want the Absolute Best in sound reproduction then yes, spend a fortune on a full manual turntable, pre amp, amp, cartridge and then spend hours setting it up and yes, you probably will have a better sounding setup then an out the box tangential B&O table, but at a considerable extra cost, stress, worry and maintaince.

Repeating myself (sound like a parrot), if you look at the Tangentials for what they are, they are an amazing machine. The 8002 is my favourite and in my opinion the pinnacle of B&O turntables. 

 

Well, for me it is easy.

Tangential have made me enjoy all the inner tracks in a way i have never done before.
decades of frustration why innertracks always sounded more unclear 

Once the tangetiall begram was installed, so many records inner tracks was a relief to listen to.

I have heard better pickups then MMC2, but that is only on the first tracks.

Music is more important then the sound, so correct playback of the innertracks is way more important then the pickup, stylus.

Cant event understand why people seriously into vinyl play even consider something else then tengetiell. 

Btw even an old SP14 in a good shape can sound absolutly fantastic, outplaying many modern very expensive pickups.....but once you get to the inner tracks..... 

Actually Christian raises a good point - I have noticed that too with the Tangential record decks - completely clear all the way through with no distortion - probably my project turntable is not set up properly

Location: United Kingdom

My B&O Icons:

BeoCenter-9500.png BeoCenter-9500.png
Beoremote-Beo4.png Beoremote-Beo4.png
Beovox.png Beovox.png
Beoplay-A1.png Beoplay-A1.png
Beogram-400x.png Beogram-400x.png
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