Bang and Olufsen Outsourced

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Dkatz wrote:
The apprenticeship and training schemes I was talking about were ones they would have in Struer, Czech and other places in Europe to train factory workers to assemble the products.

I can't speak of what happens in Struer, or their Czech facility for that matter, but I can speak about light engineering firms in the UK and other European countries that I am familiar with, Czech included. A traditional UK engineering apprenticeship would consist of at least one years "off the job" training, learning basic hand and machine tool skills. The remaining 3 or four years would be on the job under the tutelage of a time served craftsman perfecting your trade before being allowed to practise "solo". During the whole of this period the apprentice would also be required to attend technical college to gain the required academic knowledge. This is my definition of an apprenticeship. In my time in light engineering/manufacturing, none of the assembly lines I have seen have been manned by time-served craftsmen. More likely they are operated by what would be called semi-skilled labour which can amount to having basic training in the likes of safely using simple hand and air powered tools and instruction on the actual job at hand. Training before joining a new assembly line may be as short as 2 - 4 weeks - these are not apprentice trained craftsmen. This then is not infeasible in a Chinese plant.

If B&O have exclusively only ever used genuine apprentice-served craftsmen for product assembly then I am very impressed.

Bentleyman wrote:

Jonathan wrote:

Rolls Royce - GERMAN,

Bentley - GERMAN,

 

 I presume you are an Australian. As an Australian, if you had moved to say, China, 14 years ago to live/work would that mean that you are now Chinese?

yes, if I become a citizen

Jonathan wrote:

and BMW engines in Rolls??

Skoda is now German

Holden is American

If your arguement is to where it is manufactured, then the Beosound 8 and Beolit 12 makes B&O a Chinese company!

 

Jonathan – That is the most flawed logic I have ever heard. Most B&O products are not made in China, so no B&O is NOT a Chinese company. However, the BS8 and Beolit 12 ARE Chinese products which were designed in Denmark. According to your logic however, it seems that Volvo is Chinese even though it is designed, built and assembled in Sweden by Swedish workers? Who cares who owns the company, it's where it's made and who makes it that makes the product. If it's “made in” a certain country then it is a “Product of..” that country! This is why they label even products from American companies that manufacture in China as being “Product of PRC” or “Product of China." Even though they were designed by an American company!

In regards to Rolls Royce, It is an English car with a German designed engine. Just like a Lotus is an English car with a Japanese engine. They are both handbuilt in England, the engines and suspensions are tuned in England, they are designed inside out in England. They are still English companies even if somebody from another country owns them. Their base (both manufacturing and development) is in England, most of their engineers are in England.

If they had moved to company to Germany, started manufacturing at the BMW factory (or if they had moved Lotus to Proton in Malaysia), etc... then it would become a German company and the cars would be a "Product of Germany" instead of "Product of England"

😂 the fact that they're foreign owned makes them NOT english companies

Jonathan wrote:

😂 the fact that they're foreign owned makes them NOT english companies

Why can't an English company be owned by a foreign company or person and still be English through and through? In fact BMW doesn't consider RR German and neither does RR consider itself a German car, same with Proton not considering Lotus to be Malaysian, as Lotus does not consider itself a Malaysian company. They are all designed in England, built in England, tuned in England, using many English parts, with English labour. And they are not English because someobody who is not English owns them? Does that mean TVR was not British (before it went bust) when a Russian businessmen bought them? Perpahs Chelsea is not an English team either since it's owned by a Russian businessmen by your logic? Or many British football teams for that matter. If I go out and buy Lotus from Proton does it become American because of my citizenship even if I don't hire Americans to manufacture or design it? Or perhaps it will become Azerbaijani because I was born there and am 1/4 Azeri... Seems like flawed logic to me...

Dkatz wrote:
Perpahs Chelsea is not an English team either since it's owned by a Russian businessmen by your logic? Or many British football teams for that matter.

Defintely dodgy ground now, Chelsea, Man City, even Liverpool and Man Utd ................ all foreign owned and defintely non - English. In fact Man U and Liverpool have more European supporters than English😂😂😂

Jonathan wrote:

😂 the fact that they're foreign owned makes them NOT english companies

 

Complete nonsense i'm afraid.

Both Dkatz and myself have given compelling and simple reasons but you are either missing the point or just talking b*llocks for the sake of it.

The Times newspaper - that is obviously a british newspaper. However, The Times is owned by News International Corp who are based/registered in the US.  News International, on the other hand, is owned by Rupert Murdoch, who is an Australian by birth.

Does that therefore make The Times an Australian publication, or could it be called American, or is it an English newspaper?

Nobody is denying who owns RR, Bentley, Lotus, Jaguar financially nowadays and where those huge multinational companies are 'based' ( although having said that, companies such as BMW and VW are such large corporations they would be better described as 'global' companies rather than 'German' in any case), but how can a car built entirely from scratch at Goodwood or Crewe or Hethel by local british people who live within close enough daily commute distance to the assembly plants be called a german made/built car? The german companies you refer to are simply the financial corporate owners of the brand name RR or Bentley or Lotus. They have not shifted production to Germany or Malaysia or India - nor do they send thousands of german, malaysian or Indian workers over from those countries to work in the factory plants.

On paper, yes they are owned by 'foreign' companies of course. But as their products are made here in England in assembly plants staffed by British workers, how can the nationality of the controlling organisation mean that the products suddenly become of german\malaysian/indian origin....?

Totally ridiculous assertion.

 

Dkatz wrote:

Jonathan wrote:

😂 the fact that they're foreign owned makes them NOT english companies

Why can't an English company be owned by a foreign company or person and still be English through and through? In fact BMW doesn't consider RR German and neither does RR consider itself a German car, same with Proton not considering Lotus to be Malaysian, as Lotus does not consider itself a Malaysian company. They are all designed in England, built in England, tuned in England, using many English parts, with English labour. And they are not English because someobody who is not English owns them? Does that mean TVR was not British (before it went bust) when a Russian businessmen bought them? Perpahs Chelsea is not an English team either since it's owned by a Russian businessmen by your logic? Or many British football teams for that matter. If I go out and buy Lotus from Proton does it become American because of my citizenship even if I don't hire Americans to manufacture or design it? Or perhaps it will become Azerbaijani because I was born there and am 1/4 Azeri... Seems like flawed logic to me...

Once an English company is sold to another country, that company is no longer an English company. For example Lotus. Do you think the profits from Lotus go to an English company? Or do they go to a Malaysian company?

Lotus WAS an english company, but has since been sold and has become a MALAYSIAN company. B&O produce in China, this does not make them a Chinese company as the profits, decisions, etc are all from Struer

This is my last post on this frustrating and stupid thread, so please don't waste your time responding (I can't believe I keep getting sucked in 😡

Dkatz wrote:
Perpahs Chelsea is not an English team either since it's owned by a Russian businessmen by your logic?

 

Good example - presumably because Roman Abramovich owns Chelsea Football Club, this therefore makes Chelsea a Russian club in your view?

If a dog walks into a stable, does that make it a horse..? 

😂

Jonathan wrote:
This is my last post on this frustrating and stupid thread, so please don't waste your time responding (I can't believe I keep getting sucked in 😡

I wonder I wonder😜

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