Dkatz wrote:

Not neccesarily more features but something gimmicky that draws many people to B&O products in the first place. It's what made the Beosound Ouverture and Century so succesful and many other B&O products. This would draw people to it as it would be unique (although it looks a little bit different than most docks, it's still pretty generic looking imho). I didn't say use more expensive materials, in fact they could possibly save costs by producing the plastics and metals in their own factory (as they do for many of their own products) instead of buying them from somewhere. I would possily use some more metal as well to make it look more expensive than the plasticky look that the BS8 has. Those little legs alone look like they could break off in a sinch and it looks cheap overall, something that's not good for a 900 pound unit.

It would not be average European rates, much less than most European countries in fact. Assembly in Czech is 5 times less than it is in Denmark, hence why B&O opened a factory there in the first place but it would allow them to advertise that it was made in Europe and could possibly even apply for European subsidies of some sort (never hurts to try, some companies that aren't doing well do exactly that and many Japanese car companies manufacture in Europe thanks to those subsidies as well as tax and import duty benifits). 1000GBP vs. 900GBP is not much of a difference, in fact someone who is willing to pay 900 would probably pay 1000, especially if better plastics/metals were used and it was made in Europe. Right now it doesn't look expensive enough to me and many other people, and looking at it even many people on the forum say it's overpriced. I don't think it would be the case if they used better plastics and metals, changed the design a bit and added a nice feature. The fact that it's made in Europe will only help with sales if it's advertised.

Also you have to remember that it is more expensive in the UK than the US, and the UK is not the only market for this or many B&O products. In fact it's much cheaper in the US due to lower taxes and a different exchange rate to the DKK/Euro than the pound. So if it's 900GBP in the UK, it can sell for 1000USD in the US which is only 632GBP... Actually most people get paid about the same in USD in the UK and US for many similar jobs, for example in administration I am getting the same salary in the US as I was getting in the UK, actually in today's exchange rate I am earning about $10,000 more dollars per year in the US for the same job even though everything is much less expensive.

The US is a huge market for B&O, probably bigger than the UK and people often look at where something is made here. In fact they are quite a bit more transparent here than in the UK. So if they knew that the unit was made in Europe people would be more likely to part with $1200 for one rather than $1000 for something made in China. Here in the US many people would see it as a much better deal!

Please don't keep encouraging this guy, it's not even funny any more.

In fact he is pissing me off to such an extent that I may just never buy anything American ever again.

He is talking the same anti-capitalist crap that we hear from those idiots who are currently living in tents near the entrance to St Pauls Cathedral. He may even be living in the same sort of commune on Wall Street or in other big US cities. Just a bunch of jerks who are critical of the system that paid for their education.

I will send Tue a message to let him know that there is a guy in America who knows exactly how to turn B&O around. I expect him to say " Oh no, not that idiot Dkatz that I have been reading about on BeoWorld".

I bet they are all wetting themselves in Struer.................... that's what happens when you laugh too much.

joeyboygolf wrote:

Please don't keep encouraging this guy, it's not even funny any more.

In fact he is pissing me off to such an extent that I may just never buy anything American ever again.

Well, I can tell you as an established British company with key brands, we simply can't do business in America. They don't take British companies seriously (too small etc). I have a lot of respect for America, but there's a lot of blinkered arrogance over there and sometimes this arrogance appears on this board, too. American's often forget their very short history, the reason they are even in their country and so on. They easily forget that America was developed almost "ready made" from an already culturally established territory/ies.

It's very easy to look from your established flat-packed country and look at others, with far more history and turmoil, and tell them how they should be running their lives.

We can export our brands all over the world, apart from the States. I can tell you, that doing business in Australia with Australian's is the easiest and most enjoyable transaction ever, yet they keep themselves to themselves and have a thriving economy.

And if you want to complain to my boss, don't bother, as the buck stops with me. I can say what I want :)

INCOMING

Dkatz wrote:

I would possily use some more metal as well to make it look more expensive than the plasticky look that the BS8 has. Those little legs alone look like they could break off in a sinch and it looks cheap overall, something that's not good for a 900 pound unit.

Obviously, you've never screwed those two little legs, made of metal, to the back of the speakers of BeoSound 8? The legs are VERY sturdy, indeed, and practically disappear when looking at BS8 -- resulting in the floating design B&O wanted. The legs, and the way they are attached, is perfectly in line with quality that can be expected from B&O :) Not to mention the metallic middle console, the metallic rims surrounding the speakers, the sturdy, exchangeable speaker covers -- that's quality. And have a closer look at how the BeoSound 8 is assembled -- it's very well built, even meticulously for the price. You should also really spend some time listening to it, in a home environment, with a correct setting for the sound. After you've done all that, you can speak of the quality of BS8 with some credibility.

As for your discussion about outsourcing, having followed this thread and the circles in which the discussion goes, I think you have even less merit and credibility on that topic. You even fail to see why, for example, most camera manufacturers produce certain products in Japan, and some other products in China. Quality is not the prime reason. Hint: have a look at the history of those companies, their production lines and the volume of what is produced and where. Apply the same principle to B&O.

@ Moxxey Yeah, America sucks.  

First, let me start off by saying that I essentially agree with the concept that B&O should stick to manufacturing in Europe.  Here is why:

1.  The Czech Republic is located in that part of Europe that has a long history of electronics innovation, i.e. think Tesla, to name just one.  As such, electronics is imbued in their culture.  Experience, a long history and an integrity towards manufacturing is much more a part of the basic manufacturing philsophy in Europe, and to some extent in other industrialized countries, than it is in China.  These are qualities that sometimes are just not easily trained, so it may be quite a number of years before that takes place in countries like China, sorry to say.

2.  With all due respect, I look to China for fine ceramic antiquities, think Ming dynasty porcelain.  Most any such items produced before the Cultural Revolution (CR) were of very high quality without a doubt.  That is because of the history, and a long developed experience, by the Chinese in certain fields.  Look at their pen and ink works of art.  They are beautiful and refined.  Look at the jade work, before the CR.  A large part of the problem was the CR.  It wiped out alot of the basic regard that society had for traditional views and the arts, not to mention the individual drive and desire to invent and be creative for individual purposes, and not for the state.  Yes, China is a large, diverse country, but the ever so present "invisible", yet not so really invisible, hand of the state is always lurking there in the background.  We see this more and more in the USA where there is too much regulation, where various regulatory agencies want to come into a company and actually order a company to change their label because it states "Co." instead of "Company".  I kid you not.  This happened to a local manufacturing company called Sprecher Brewing in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  It is total ridiculous.  Thus, many companies move their manufacturing out of the USA.

And I wouldn't beat up on the Katz fellow, because he is entitled to his viewpoint.  In fact, it should be carefully considered, simply because he is having such a strong and vociferous response to him.  Diversity of opinion and a serious regard for it makes the discussion healthy and keeps it real... as they say in the USA.

Please, be nice to everyone.

waltoninn wrote:

First, let me start off by saying that I essentially agree with the concept that B&O should stick to manufacturing in Europe.  Here is why:

1.  The Czech Republic is located in that part of Europe that has a long history of electronics innovation, i.e. think Tesla, to name just one.  As such, electronics is imbued in their culture.  Experience, a long history and an integrity towards manufacturing is much more a part of the basic manufacturing philsophy in Europe, and to some extent in other industrialized countries, than it is in China.  These are qualities that sometimes are just not easily trained, so it may be quite a number of years before that takes place in countries like China, sorry to say.

2.  With all due respect, I look to China for fine ceramic antiquities, think Ming dynasty porcelain.  Most any such items produced before the Cultural Revolution (CR) were of very high quality without a doubt.  That is because of the history, and a long developed experience, by the Chinese in certain fields.  Look at their pen and ink works of art.  They are beautiful and refined.  Look at the jade work, before the CR.  A large part of the problem was the CR.  It wiped out alot of the basic regard that society had for traditional views and the arts, not to mention the individual drive and desire to invent and be creative for individual purposes, and not for the state.  Yes, China is a large, diverse country, but the ever so present "invisible", yet not so really invisible, hand of the state is always lurking there in the background.  We see this more and more in the USA where there is too much regulation, where various regulatory agencies want to come into a company and actually order a company to change their label because it states "Co." instead of "Company".  I kid you not.  This happened to a local manufacturing company called Sprecher Brewing in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  It is total ridiculous.  Thus, many companies move their manufacturing out of the USA.

And I wouldn't beat up on the Katz fellow, because he is entitled to his viewpoint.  In fact, it should be carefully considered, simply because he is having such a strong and vociferous response to him.  Diversity of opinion and a serious regard for it makes the discussion healthy and keeps it real... as they say in the USA.

Please, be nice to everyone.

This is a proper and 'considered' response by waltoninn.

We are all B&O lovers/customers - but we can all have our own differing opinions. Thats actually a very good thing.

There is no need to get so heated and borderline offensive. Keep your dummies (pacifiers u.s. 😕) inside of your pram guys 😁

🙂

waltoninn wrote:

First, let me start off by saying that I essentially agree with the concept that B&O should stick to manufacturing in Europe.  Here is why:

1.  The Czech Republic is located in that part of Europe that has a long history of electronics innovation, i.e. think Tesla, to name just one.  As such, electronics is imbued in their culture.  Experience, a long history and an integrity towards manufacturing is much more a part of the basic manufacturing philsophy in Europe, and to some extent in other industrialized countries, than it is in China.  These are qualities that sometimes are just not easily trained, so it may be quite a number of years before that takes place in countries like China, sorry to say.

2.  With all due respect, I look to China for fine ceramic antiquities, think Ming dynasty porcelain.  Most any such items produced before the Cultural Revolution (CR) were of very high quality without a doubt.  That is because of the history, and a long developed experience, by the Chinese in certain fields.  Look at their pen and ink works of art.  They are beautiful and refined.  Look at the jade work, before the CR.  A large part of the problem was the CR.  It wiped out alot of the basic regard that society had for traditional views and the arts, not to mention the individual drive and desire to invent and be creative for individual purposes, and not for the state.  Yes, China is a large, diverse country, but the ever so present "invisible", yet not so really invisible, hand of the state is always lurking there in the background.  We see this more and more in the USA where there is too much regulation, where various regulatory agencies want to come into a company and actually order a company to change their label because it states "Co." instead of "Company".  I kid you not.  This happened to a local manufacturing company called Sprecher Brewing in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  It is total ridiculous.  Thus, many companies move their manufacturing out of the USA.

And I wouldn't beat up on the Katz fellow, because he is entitled to his viewpoint.  In fact, it should be carefully considered, simply because he is having such a strong and vociferous response to him.  Diversity of opinion and a serious regard for it makes the discussion healthy and keeps it real... as they say in the USA.

Please, be nice to everyone.

Are you referencing the Sprecher Brewing Company that makes their root beer with honey? If so, outstanding product and well with the search to go find it locally. 

BTW: we have plenty of threads on this board about the wonders of Apple, which are "designed in California, made in China". I'm not seeing quality issues mentioned with their products. 

I wish some of you guys will please stop talking about the BS8 is some kind of bargain, you are just encouraging B&O. There are so many better systems out there in terms of performance and build quality and a third of the price. This product is pure fake and total rubbish. Sorry guys, you are stuck in your own little B&O world! You are very very silly if you think this system performs well. It's a disgrace!