Puncher wrote:

link

So they made 27 million DKK last year. Whooppeee!

For me ...

It's time to say goodbye ...

to this thread

Nickyg63 – B&O sold many products for less than many thousands as you say. Look at the BS1, BS3, BSCentury, they were all sold in the 500-1100 GBP range, were all portable and were similar in concept to the BS8 and BS12. B&O priced these products this way because they thought they knew they could make a profit on each one that was substantial even though they were not made in China. However, even though the BS3 was not successful the BSCentury was highly successful and the BS1 didn't do too bad either. All of these units were much more mass manufactured than their other products, yet the BS1 had a fit and finish, plus CD player and radio (that were extremely cool and innovative in the way they opened that the BS8 lacks), aux input to input an iPod or other device and excellent sound quality. They were able to sell these products for this much, the problem was that they wanted to sell more. My point is that had they really wanted to, they could have started mass producing  in their own factory in Struer or Czech for example as they did with the BS1, BS3 and BS Century. The price difference between a BS1 and BS8 is only a couple hundred pounds yet one cost a hell of a lot less to make than the other. My point is that they could have made it in Europe and charged a couple hundred more. If the BS1 had been an “iPod dock” sold at Apple Stores with some licensing deal, then it would have been just as if not more successful than the BS8 and yet made in Denmark or Czech!

Tournedos – Well maybe that's the difference. People who buy the BS8 and Beolit12 don't consider the B&O a high end manufacturer? Since you say that the people against me don't agree with that, that in itself answers its question...

I think that B&O don't outsource their higher end products for the same reasons that other manufacturers like Canon and Nikon keep their professional digital cameras production in Japan in their own factory, same with Sony and Panasonic electronics the high end laptops are made in Japan, etc... Why is this? It's because they know that professionals need the most reliable and best build quality available and that they can't achieve it by building it in someone elses factory in another country where they don't have the same level of QC. All things considered, if like many on this forum state China's quality is on the same level or better than Japan or Europe's, and if nobody really checks where things are made as many have stated, then why don't these manufacturers produce everything in China? They would make a lot more profit... It's for the same reason that all the manufacturers I talked to that don't outsource give me which I mentioned in previous posts about quality control, higher grade materials, etc... This is my point about it not being simply about specifying materials and design and having another company manufacture in China to the same standards, if it were like this, all professional and high end goods would be made in China as well and the companies would make even a higher profit margin. And no, not all the high end professional products are low volume manufacture: those Sony, Canon, Nikon, Panasonic all mass produce their high end cameras, video equipment, camera products as well, one can even say that Louis Vuitton is mass produced as they make hundreds of thousands of wallets and bags every year... and they are part of a huge conglomerate LVMH. Miele, Fujitsu-Siemens in Germany and many others who mass manufacture. So yes even big or mid-size corporations which mass manufacture often realize that if it is a high end or professional product it must be made in their own factory in their own country in order to assure a high level of quality that they feel they simply cannot achieve in China. So is it possible that all these companies are utterly wrong and the few people on this forum who thinks that China can manufacture to that degree or better are right?

Puncher – According to you and Moxxey the BS8 and Beolit 12 are such a great success to B&Os profits (which I am not arguing at all, I am in complete agreement with this). However, from looking at your link I can see the stocks are down... Really sad. My solution would have been as I posted above to Nickyg63. The key to the success of the BS8 and Beolit 12 are not the fact that they are built in China but the fact that they have iPod integration, and have a deal to sell them at Apple stores. That alone guarantees high sales of these items. If they were 1100 as the BS1 instead of 900 as the BS8 is, then people would still buy them because when you're paying a thousand pounds, another couple hundred won't matter that much, especially if you can have it made in Denmark or Struer. Perhaps if the BS1 and BS3 had the kind of integration and deal with Apple that the BS8 has then they would have been just as successful! The BS1 in my book is a much better product, and has an Aux in which is enough for me although it's not a dock...

😂😂😂😂😂😂

now it's just getting silly

😂😂😂😂😂

sorry, it's just too funny!

Every company make a note. If you want to survive, increase your prices by over 20% because your customers won't mind paying that little bit extra for you not cutting costs...

Best strategy I've ever heard!

Jonathan wrote:

😂😂😂😂😂

sorry, it's just too funny!

Every company make a note. If you want to survive, increase your prices by over 20% because your customers won't mind paying that little bit extra for you not cutting costs...

Best strategy I've ever heard!

I'm saying it's a better value for money to pay a little bit more to get a Danish made product than pay a little bit less for a Chinese made one. This is why I would personally buy a BS1 or even a BS3 for 500-600 pounds rather than a made in China BS8. My point is that brand strategy should not simply be about profit. If they had the type of integration such as a dock that the BS8 has and a similar deal with apple to sell in their stores. I am sure people wouldn't mind paying a little bit more. If the BS8 was the price of a BS3 or cheaper, it would be a different story, but it's closer to the price of a BS1 which is just silly! People who shell out 1000 pounds on an iPod dock aren't going to mind a couple hundred more for one that's made in Europe. It's only that B&O set the price at 900 that people think it's the correct price, what if they had set it at 1100? People would still probably buy it whether it was made in China or not. My point is that the success in sales for the BS8 and Beolit 12 are exactly the iPod integration, licesning, and sales at Apple stores... It's the reason the A8 headphones were so succesful in sales numbers! If they had done that with the BS1 and used the same strategy, perhaps B&O would have succeeded greatly with that... Like I said if they were charging for the BS8 closer to what the BS3 cost rather than what the BS1 cost then I would be more understanding as a consumer. However, if they had made theiir other products which are similarily price to the BS8 (or some which cost less) more succesful through marketing, deals with Apple, integration, etc... then they wouldn't have needed to outsource! I believe they could still do that instead of outsourcing with their new products... but it's too late now that they've done it...

The A8s are made in China! 😂😂😂

To sell products in an Apple store, B&O have to pay Apple to do this. This makes the margins even thinner! And to increase prices by 20% in a Global Financial Crisis!!! 😕

Regardless of where they were made, their success relied upon the fact that they had a huge distribution such as duty free in airplanes, apple stores, etc... 

I'm not saying to increase prices. The point is that the BS8 is 900 because that's what the company decided it to be. Had they decided for them to be made in Denmark and sold at 1100 for example, that's what the price would be. It wouldn't be a 20% increase in the minds of consumers as that's the only price they would have seen. Selling a Chinese made unit for almost the same price as a Danish made one which is much better is just plain robbery in my eyes. If they sold enough of the Danish made units (which they would given the licensing, sales in Apple stores, integration, etc..) they would have more than enough profit to survive. They were complaining about not selling enough, that has more to do with distribution, with brand recognition, integration, marketing, etc.. 

At least this way they would have had perhaps a smaller profit margin than with Made in China products, but a much much bigger profit than they had before they went to China...

And by the way, regardless of where it was made. B&O increases their prices of products by 5-10% every year or so anyways!

Dkatz I admire your persistance, Modern businesses need to run in modern ways. Things evolve, maybe they will move more and more over to China? 

They couldn't sustain doing things in the way they did, there was no profit!! Hense the reason for this thread!!

I think we are a bit niave to think that anything made in china will be of poorer quality, I think its best to agree to disagree on this subject as we aren't getting anywhere and things are getting a bit sour! 

Thanks for a great discussion 

Nick

I doubt they will move their higher end manufacturing to China. The reason being is that they still want it to be of the highest quality and standard. I think they know that if they do they will become another generic brand like Bose or even like Sony. The thing is even those brands which I mentioned don't outsource their higher end products exactly because they know that the build quality will suffer. How could it be that the 10s of thousands of brands that don't outsource their professional or high end products are wrong and you and a few others are right about China's quality?

They couldn't sustain it because of them worrying about share prices and dividends. Before they wen't public they wouldn't have had these worries. They complained about not having enough sales, but the reason the BS8 sold so well is like I mentioned because of marketing, sales in apple stores, dock integration, etc... If they had made this unit before, and made it in Denmark and sold it for a little bit more, it would have been just as succesful and they wouldn't need to outsource. They wouldn't make as much money but they would make enough to survive...