Puncher wrote:
Dkatz wrote:
Puncher wrote:
Dkatz wrote:
Tell me B&O was not making any money from the Century or BS1. Tell me why I should buy a BS8 or Beolit12 instead of the BS1 which costs only a little more than the BS8 yet is not made in China but looks and sounds much better and is still portable? B&O did make some reasonably priced excellent products which were made in their factories in Denmark or Czech that justified their costs. If they can make 1000 GBP products made in Denmark and Czech such as the Century and BS1, why would I go and buy a Chinese made unit for 900? This is exactly why I think it is too expensive! The labour cost is 1/50 of what it is in Denmark yet the unit cost to the consumer is only 10% less as compared to the Century and BS1. Of course they're making a hell of a lot more money now... But the lower cost is not being transfered to the consumer!
Many say the BS8 easily outperforms the BS1.
That is a matter of opinion and not my point. It's not only simply about sound quality but also about how it feels and looks. The BS1 had a lot more metal such as the nice grill and was way more innovative with the way the CD and Antenna popped out.
My point is that the BS1 costs almost the same as the BS8 yet it was not made in China. It cost the company nearly 50 times more in labour per hour to manufacture. The BS8 is made for 50 times less labour cost (I doubt the components are that much more expensive than the BS1, probably less expensive as they are manufactured in China as well) and yet they sell it for only 10% less than the BS1. If the BS8 was less than half the price it is, then I would say that it wasn't a rip off. Although I still would not approve of this move and still would not buy one personally, I would at least feel that the decrease in manufacturing cost is somehow transfering to the consumer!
Perhaps you missed Tournedos' post earlier, where he detailed that the "pre China" product lineup wasn't making enough money to pay dividends, the share price had slumped and no one was buying the product you advocate as the way forward.
That's why I talked about the problem with a company going public. They worry about share prices, dividends, etc.. too much. If they hadn't gone public perhaps they wouldn't have worried so much about their share prices going up and about making a huge profit in order to satisfy shareholders, boardmembers, and the like.
However, you yourself said that the BS Century was one of their bestsellers and I know many people who bought a BS1 because they couldn't afford the other B&O products... These are working class people, not the rich snobs you talk about and these products were cheap, not the 10K TVs that Tournedo and others have talked about. B&O was long ago making cheaper products for the masses and making money out of it. The century and BS1 are proof of it, they were B&Os best seling products and if they didn't make any money out of it they wouldn't have sold it.
Having made the decision that they did to outsource, they still could have sold the BS8 for half the price it is selling at which is only 10% of something that costs upto 50 times more in labour cost to make. They could have sold it for half the price of the BS1 and it would have made more senes, they still would have made a huge profit, the consumers would have gotten a cheaper product and in the end more and more people would go out and buy a BS8. I think the only reason they kept the price high is to keep their "image" high as well. Which for me is ridiculous anyways considering the fact that a high end Danish audio manufacturer is making an iPod dock in China for the masses...
The BS3 was half the price of the BS8 and wasn't made in China. Yes it had its shortcomings but it was half the price of a unit that cost 50 times less in labour cost to make. Don't you see that as a problem in itself? Perhaps many of B&Os products were just selling too cheap. Or perhaps their integration and marketing was not upto par and it had nothing to do with insane profit margins based on cheap labour. B&O should have marketed their products better and integrated more Aux In features, advertised the BS3 and BS1 as iPod compatible via a cable, perhaps even included the cable with the unit.... Perhaps they would have sold better and we would still have Danish/Czech made B&O products, selling for the same price as the Chinese made ones... Even a cheap little unit like the BS3 that cost 500 GBP had a better fit and finish than the BS8 or Beolit 12 for half the price and was not made in China for 1/50 of the labour cost!
I think the BS8 and Beolit 12 are a success not because they were made in China, but because they integrated them with the iPod and made a deal with Apple to sell it in their stores (The same reason the A8 Earphones were so successful). If the BS1 had been sold in the apple stores and was integrated, it wouldn't cost that much more to make and would sell for the same as it was selling. Yet it would have been just as succesful as the BS8. But it wasn't about that for B&O, the outsourcing was to make 50 times more money. For example if the BS8 had the same cost in components (but probbaly less as they were made in china), and the same cost in materials (also probably less as they were also made in China), and on top of this the labour cost was 50 times less but they could sell it for about as much as a BS1, then of course the profit would be at least 50 times more per unit in labour cost alone!
