Moxxey – If it wasn't necessarily about surviving and it was more about appealing to younger audiences then they have completely changed their image to become some “hip” brand. Unfortunately, I don't think this is the right way to go about it. They are ruining their brand image. Think about what Bemtleyman said: If RR outsourced to China and built some cheap RR's to appeal to young people because they are a brand for old rich guys... Then it would completely and utterly destroy their image, it is similar for B&O, because B&O to me is like RR in many ways!
In regards to your brother. I'm sure there are ways of expanding if you have the money to invest in the business you can build a bigger factory, higher more workers, it's highly possible. I know that New Zealand is a much smaller country, but in the US here we have companies that produce similar laptop bags, etc... That are made in the USA and mass produced. You also have companies like American Apparel that mass produce really cool laptop bags, and of course clothing in the US, probably exceeding your brother production in China. He could have always commissioned a company in a developed country to make it but China is closer, faster, and like you said many people won't be able to tell the difference plus it will be cheaper. However, one cannot compare cool felt laptop bags to a higher end luxury item, for example Louis Vuitton or Hermes laptop bags that are still made in France by hand or B&O stereo systems that should be made in Denmark by hand!
In regards to the BS8 it's not only about the fact that it's made in China. It's about the fact that it is a lower quality product, it would be even if it was made in Denmark because it's a low end product compared to B&Os other products! It's going against their image and their other products in so many ways. It looks and feels cheap and plasticky, and even if it were marginally better if it were built in Denmark then it would still be too low end a product for B&O in my opinion.
I just through in $20-50 as a range because I don't know and I don't think anyone on this forum knows how much it actually costs to build a BS8. Bang and Olufsen and many other companies that produce in China will keep the production costs hidden, knowing that if the public found out their profit margins they might feel ripped off too. The point is that the profit margin (percentage wise per unit) will be much bigger if it is made in China, even if it costs a lot less. Why is $800 cheap? Because it has the name B&O on it? For a B&O it's cheap? That doesn't make it cheap though, especially for a Chinese produced cheap looking dock that is marginally better than ones that cost ¼ the price and are probably built in the same factory by the same people and not by B&O.
BTW, I completely agree with you on your point that people like TodDaniel, Bentleyman, Bayerische, Myelf and a few others will be left behind and the brand will do amazingly well economically. Who knows they might become as big and rich as Bose is one day, outsourcing all their products to China. That will be a sad day for me, and I fear that the BS8 and Beolit12 is only the beginning. In the end it's not all about economics and making 10x more profit than you were to fill your pockets and sell more, there is so much more to opening a business. There are morals, feelings, craftsmanship, and so much more I thought B&O represented. With China B&O has lost their craftsmanship, their support to their local community and workers, in those specific products and I fear they might lose it all together in the future...
Puncher – It depends on the Chinese buyer. I know many many rich Chinese who do buy such cars and many European products because they are made in Europe by craftsman. A Swiss watch because it's Swiss made by craftsmen, etc...
In regards to B&O, there are companies that have even bigger turnovers and more employees that don't outsource. I think the problem here is not the size of the company but the fact that it is a public one, and therefore they also care about their shareholders, boardmembers, execs, etc... that need to get paid out good sums! If it were not a publicly traded company it might not have to satisfy all these people. On top of this if they had a different CEO he might have made a different decision, taken it a different direction. So much depends on one person or a group of boardmembers and they can often make a decision they feel is right but is not necessarily right for the company.
TodDaniel – I completely agree with you. Most young people who are in college or starting off in a career will be too cheap to buy any B&O even at $800-1000 for something. They will go buy a Bose at half the cost (there are even Bose outlets in the US). Or they will go buy some cheap unit until they have the money to buy a proper high end audio system. Perhaps then they will buy and use a BL5 speakers or something similar and not some cheap plastic iPod dock. It's like if people are interested in high end audio and love B&O for it are they really going to shell out $800 for some cheap plastic iPod dock or just hook it up to a proper hifi system? And if they're too cheap to buy higher end B&O will they really buy the lower end for that much just because of the brand? Some won't but if they're that cheap or poor they will go and buy a cheaper item!
Puncher – I agree that every business model is different for every company but B&Os model has changed dramatically and they have lowered their standards. I don't think it's about China's capability to produce these products as it is about the product itself. Being made in China just lowers the image of the brand even further. The fact that they are making such a cheap item, even if it was made in Struer, it would still be much much lower than any other B&Os offerings, hence B&O are lowering their standards of build and sound quality. On top of this, these units are not hand assembled as other Beosound products which are made in Struer for example! So already the quality control will be much much lower, look at the video I posted earlier of the B&O factory in Struer and see how much quality control goes into each item produced and all the checks it goes through. They do not have this capability in China because it is not their factory and it's about mass production and cheap fast labour, not hand assembled like in Struer and using much cheaper materials and components which are not produced by the B&O factory that they produce their own metals and plastics for their own products for in Struer. These are the reasons they will be of a poorer quality in China, and it is obvious to anyone that compares the unit to a Beosound 1 for example as a portable unit, or a Beosound 3200 as a desktop unit, those are luxury high end, high quality units that are hand assembled!
Tournedos – That would be disgusting if B&O put Swarovski crystals on their products. I hope they don't sink that low. Do you really think that is how B&O is? Do you think they are overcharging for exclusivity? If so then why are you a B&O fan and on this forum? As I mentioned I never complained about the cost of the Struer/Czech produced products as being expensive! In fact I feel they are good value for money!
Jonathan – What I am talking about is what economists term as a race to the bottom. It is a separation between rich and poor both in the developing and developed world. I discussed this previously and it has a lot to do with outsourcing. Jobs are lost in the developed world because companies outsource which creates a rising unemployment and a huge separation between rich and poor (look at what has become of Detroit after more than half the car production was outsourced to Mexico). In the developing world, an elite class control almost all the factories and make millions (along with the companies that outsource there from the developed world) off the cheap Labour. The factory owners could pay them more money and give them better working conditions and less work hours, but then they wouldn't be as rich as they are would they? The workers are forced to work in the factories because this is the system in place, there are no other jobs for them. This is why in terms of fruits, vegetables, coffee, tea, etc... in developing countries Fairtrade (a UK organisation) was invented which ensures a decent wage to the farmers and workers so that they can lead decent lives.
You are right about the generalization that most Americans are obese, just like MOST workers in factories in China don't have the best working conditions. Look at my previous posts about the Soviet Union and how many in the west though life was appalling there, yet factory conditions there in similar factories were better than in China in many ways and people got more decent wages and didn't have to live in dorms with 10 other people (that was more of the gulag).
When I say we all have a choice I didn't say you shouldn't buy Chinese products. Quote me on where I said that because I really don't remember saying such a thing!
Folkdeejay – I am not trying to change the world with my so called Boycott. In fact if there are some traditional products from developing countries that are fair trade certified such as woven baskets from Africa, tea's from China, etc... I am usually more than happy to buy them and support those people! But when I know those people are being exploited, and on top of that people are becoming unemployed in the west thanks to outsourcing (over 10 million in the US alone in the past 15 years). Then one can really start to see where the Child Poverty and separation between rich and poor in the west comes from. The CEO's of these companies are only getting richer by laying off their workers in their own country to outsource and make 100x the profit they did before whilst everyone else doesn't get a good deal from it, and neither do consumers since they don't lower the prices at all usually after outsourcing.
Just because a few hundred years ago we had such kind of labour in the west doesn't mean we should support it now. Does our own past justify supporting something like that in another country? In our present we do not have the same situation as we do in China. We are talking specifically about separation between rich and poor (however bad it is, there is much more of a middle class and it is much better than in China or other developing countries) and about something resembling the gulags in terms of labour hours and low pay (actually my great grandfather was sent to the Gulags during Stalin's rein, he died of consumption there). Something that just doesn't happen in the west where wages are much higher, working conditions are much better, and labour unions are much stronger. How can you say to look at how bad our society lives when it is a much lower percentage than theirs that live badly? China has some of the highest poverty rates in the world! Worse than many developing countries in Africa! In fact many Chinese are even going to Africa to start a new life!
