folkdeejay wrote:

Dkatz wrote:

You have to remember Moxxey that the UK is a democratic country, has been for ages. The fact that the Union Workers can rise up at all is a statement that it is a free country. In China if workers did that they would get fired. If they complained about the government, etc... they would be put in Jail. Britain hasn't been like that for a couple hundred years now. Even in the 19th century Unions were formed and people were up in arms about many things as far back as then!

You are joking ....😉

You sure? I thought is was a Monarchy. 😜 😂😂😂

bayerische wrote:

Moxxey,

That is probably true but the mainstream high-end or hifi community still sees B&O as a lovely "looking" box without any innards to speak of...

 

I've felt like Don Quiote on many occations on the local HiFi forum in Finland. 

 

My cousin is has been in the HiFi industry (Importer) for close to 20 years. Amoung others he's the official importer of ELAC, Dynaudio, Moon Audio, Aurender, Silent Wire, etc... According to him the BL5's are the best speakers he have ever heard! 

The only ones "on par" are the Dynaudio Consequence ultimate edition, costing about 3 times that of Beolab 5. Not to mention the amps, dacs and CD/media players and wires...

The setup I heard them in this last autumn was about 100K euro worth. And I admit it was on par with the BL5's! 😁

Try and get a "Hifist" to believe this is, impossible. 

I actually met your cousin, although only briefly... And I can confirm what he said about the Beolab 5's. 🙂

bayerische wrote:

Moxxey,

 

You are also right. 🙂

 

You can't imagine the problems I have getting people to work for me. Working at a bar, or a restaurant isn't what young people think is "5exy", they know it's hard work.

Summer means a lot of work for me, and thus I need to hire more people, so most of my staff are "summer workers". It's getting harder and harder to get workers, as who would want to work at a restaurant? "I'm too precious" or "too high on the social ladder for that".

Even if the pay is very good for a 18-year old. 

So what do these 18-year olds do all summer when school/collage/university is off?

They are free! They live off their parents.

How their parents want to or even afford to support these young grown-ups is beyond me.

And the really funny (actually sad) social behaviour to me, is that in most of the cases the "I'm too good to do dishes" youngsters are from middle or lower-middle class families. The ones that actually work their butts off all summer are from middle-to-high or some are even from high classes! Makes you think what the uppbringing is to do with it.

The kids who can actually afford to jet-ski all summer at the summer house do the dishes, serve tables, work 12h days 5-6 days a week, and don't complain, as nothing is more valuable than work-experience! Whatever you might study or whatever your future line of work may be.

 

Sadly, this is true... For some reason a lot of companies I know have problems with getting young people get to work for them... And it's not like these companies are demanding the impossible. Still lots of youngsters are unemployed these days... 🙁

@Dkatz, I admire your intellect and ability to argue points ad infinitum.  Your response to my tongue-in-cheek (and accurate) comment was not without substance, though a tad simplistic and naive. That's cool, it fits my mentality.  However, when you can describe systems and interactions as well as you do data points, I will be really impressed.  Meanwhile, you ought to try your shtick out on CNET or Engadget and see where it goes: tougher crowd than a B&O one. 

I learned the best way to close a circular argument (from having teenagers past and present) is to find an example that shows the futility of continuing.  See if you can spot the irony here....

folkdeejay wrote:

Dkatz wrote:

You have to remember Moxxey that the UK is a democratic country, has been for ages. The fact that the Union Workers can rise up at all is a statement that it is a free country. In China if workers did that they would get fired. If they complained about the government, etc... they would be put in Jail. Britain hasn't been like that for a couple hundred years now. Even in the 19th century Unions were formed and people were up in arms about many things as far back as then!

You are joking ....😉

I was going to reply too, but then thought "what's the point!".

beocool wrote:

bayerische wrote:

Moxxey,

That is probably true but the mainstream high-end or hifi community still sees B&O as a lovely "looking" box without any innards to speak of...

 

I've felt like Don Quiote on many occations on the local HiFi forum in Finland. 

 

My cousin is has been in the HiFi industry (Importer) for close to 20 years. Amoung others he's the official importer of ELAC, Dynaudio, Moon Audio, Aurender, Silent Wire, etc... According to him the BL5's are the best speakers he have ever heard! 

The only ones "on par" are the Dynaudio Consequence ultimate edition, costing about 3 times that of Beolab 5. Not to mention the amps, dacs and CD/media players and wires...

The setup I heard them in this last autumn was about 100K euro worth. And I admit it was on par with the BL5's! 😁

Try and get a "Hifist" to believe this is, impossible. 

I actually met your cousin, although only briefly... And I can confirm what he said about the Beolab 5's. 🙂

I have to say that reviews that I have read of the BL5,and BL9,in both Hi-Fi magazines,and on websites,have been ecstatic.

I think that B & O has been very remiss in bringing these speakers to the hi-fi public's attention.

In all the years of my attending Hi-Fi Shows both in the UK,and overseas,I don't recall B & O once being in attendance.

Additionally,they do not appear to have supported their high end speakers with similarly high end ancilliaries,such as a Preamp,or CD Player.

My hi-fi system is from a small swiss manufacturer Ensemble Audio

I may get shot here, but it wasnt Margret Thatchers fault that the mines closed and the fact we haven't any uk owned vehicle manufacturers left anymore. It was down to the fact that these people were on very good money £30k for a miner (I think) in the late seventies early eighties and they still wanted more!  They even made it so that they included time to get to the coal face, in the working shift and also the fact that they didnt want to graft for the money.  They also thought nothing of sabotaging machinary so they had to down tools on the shift!

This isnt everyone that worked in mining, I know there were people that did want to graft and earn an honest living.

For some reason in the UK we have a class system in place, where there is a feeling of resentment almost a poison that flows through people!  Where if you work hard and get somewhere in life people hate you for it, I work with younger people and the atitude most of them have is one of unwillingness to work hard, if they keep saying they cant do it someone will come along and do it for them!

So it became to expensive to dig coal out of british mines, sad really that its cheaper to import coal from somewhere else seeing as we have it in the ground here!!

The ironic thing was that after the miners striking, they returned to work for less than they were offered originally!!

Thatcher wasn't going to let them nearly cripple the country again, so I suppose took great pleasure in closing down our mining industry!

The story is very similar for our car manufacturers! 

Nickyg63 wrote:

I may get shot here, but it wasnt Margret Thatchers fault that the mines closed and the fact we haven't any uk owned vehicle manufacturers left anymore. It was down to the fact that these people were on very good money £30k for a miner (I think) in the late seventies early eighties and they still wanted more!  They even made it so that they included time to get to the coal face, in the working shift and also the fact that they didnt want to graft for the money.  They also thought nothing of sabotaging machinary so they had to down tools on the shift!

This isnt everyone that worked in mining, I know there were people that did want to graft and earn an honest living.

For some reason in the UK we have a class system in place, where there is a feeling of resentment almost a poison that flows through people!  Where if you work hard and get somewhere in life people hate you for it, I work with younger people and the atitude most of them have is one of unwillingness to work hard, if they keep saying they cant do it someone will come along and do it for them!

 

So it became to expensive to dig coal out of british mines, sad really that its cheaper to import coal from somewhere else seeing as we have it in the ground here!!

The ironic thing was that after the miners striking, they returned to work for less than they were offered originally!!

Thatcher wasn't going to let them nearly cripple the country again, so I suppose took great pleasure in closing down our mining industry!

 

The story is very similar for our car manufacturers! 

Well done that man, that is exactly what happened. The unions priced their members out of the market!

However, I believe that we should avoid involving politics in our discussions on this forum. There are other places on the internet for that.

Dkatz wrote:

KMA – You are sending a link to Apple propaganda on their website. Of course they are going to say they have the best standards, etc... That link was probably put up after all the scandal a year or so ago! It's to cover their asses...

Dkatz, can you point me to reliable sources (articles, studies) that are not junk-press (such as Daily Mail arguably is) or propaganda to some other end as opposed to Apple's statements? I bet a publicly traded company would not publish facts (to a global audience) if they cannot back up them with actions, and if there's no truth to them. Are you claiming Apple is lying? Accidents of various types happen in just about every production enviroment regardless of where in the world a factory or plant is, and not everyone is happy with their work, no matter where or what the work is. When tragedies happen -- and given enough time they will happen everywhere -- isn't the correct action to investigate and take appropriate measure to prevent them from happening again for the same reasons?

As for Beosound 8 and Beolit 12, when B&O specify the standards, components and materials, and have good QC, what difference does it make whose hands produce the products and in which part of the world? By "what difference" I refer to the quality of Beosound 8 and Beolit 12 made in China vs. if they were made Struer. How much higher quality Beosound 8s and Beolit 12s people in Struer could produce, and how? And more to the point, how would we notice the difference, apart from the "Made in China" / "Made in Denmark" label on the product, if the standards, materials and components were the same?

Just wondering.

Well said joeyboygolf. If an industry isn't paying its way, and is sucking the country down what you want is a leader MAN enough to make hard decisions and see them through.

My home town of Swindon, and it had its famous railway works shut by Labour in 76, making half the town unemployed. Within 10 years it was the fastest growing town in western europe, primarily fed by manufacturing stuff people actually want to buy. Mining is a crap job, and Im personally glad they have shut down. My opinion is based upon the stories I heard from ex miners when i worked in Wales.

The current CEO of B&O will be facing equally hard decisions about people's careers etc, especially hard when you consider the B&O employees are hardly a bunch of work shy militants.