bayerische wrote:

I don't know what it means, but I'll laugh anyway!

😂😂😂😂😂😂

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Puncher wrote:

moxxey wrote:

.................and I said "Boro".

😂😂😂😂😂😎

😁

I seriously hope you'll be supporting us against Sunderland on Sunday. It's live on ITV.

Puncher, do you use Facebook? :)

moxxey wrote:

Puncher, do you use Facebook? :)

No chance😂 He's too frightened of revealing his true identity. Aren't you Dave?

The wonderful economist Milton Friedman said many years ago that if we in the US wanted to see where we we will be in 20 years, look at the UK today.  I don't believe even he could conceive the speed of change that has come with globalization and technology.

Given the compression of time, the wealth cycle, and the corresponding need for societies to find a new working class whose labors they can leverage, I am looking forward to getting a second crack at the old textile and chemical manufacturing jobs from my youth and early career before I die/retire. 

moxxey wrote:

Puncher wrote:

moxxey wrote:

.................and I said "Boro".

😂😂😂😂😂😎

😁

I seriously hope you'll be supporting us against Sunderland on Sunday. It's live on ITV.

Puncher, do you use Facebook? :)

Puncher LOVES Facebook!

Come on in to WED© thread this week and ask him!

moxxey wrote:

Puncher wrote:

moxxey wrote:

.................and I said "Boro".

😂😂😂😂😂😎

😁

I seriously hope you'll be supporting us against Sunderland on Sunday. It's live on ITV.

Puncher, do you use Facebook? :)

Oh Yes, definitely not!😂

Stonk wrote:

moxxey wrote:

Puncher, do you use Facebook? :)

No chance😂 He's too frightened of revealing his true identity. Aren't you Dave?

Sssccccchhhhhhhh!

Hush-hush.

Puncher wrote:

bayerische wrote:

Puncher wrote:

moxxey wrote:

.................and I said "Boro".

😂😂😂😂😂😎

😁

I don't know what it means, but I'll laugh anyway!

😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

Middlesbrough supporter -

 

Oh!

I thought that was "Jesse Pinkman" from Breaking Bad. 😎

TerryM wrote:

The unemployed geology graduate being forced to work in Poundland for 2 weeks,in order to continue to receive benefits,is suing the Government for breach of her human rights.

and in an industry close to my heart.......that person must be absolutely f.......ing useless one can only assume. The earth-resourse industry is crying out for Geos everywhere....esp. Aus and Africa.

It has got to be harder falling off the floor than it is to be a Geo Grad and not be offered a job in earth resourses right now!!!

Puncher – My argument is that they didn't have to outsource in order to survive. 15K plus TVs aren't the only thing they sell, they have many audio components that they are a lot more famous for such as the Beosound and Beolab products many of which are reasonably priced in the 1-5k range. B&Os problem is exactly one of becoming a huge corporation that they cannot sustain. Think about how much they pay out to boardmembers, executives, CEO himself gets an extremely high salary, and of course they need to show a rising profit in order for share prices to go up to satisfy them. Many other companies who also sell TVs and Audio equipment for even more than B&O manage to survive perhaps because they don't have this greed. Would the executives be able to survive without the millions in salary and bonuses they get total? A company might show a huge profit publically but they are still able to pay all their employees including execs. Look at non-profit organizations that produce nothing yet most of their employees get paid and the CEO of the non-profit probably also gets a decent salary... Yet they don't make a profit... It doesn't really matter, as long as everyone in the company is getting paid a decent wage and they can survive in that sense it's great but unfortunately for B&O being a public company it doesn't work the same way... The CEOs of such companies will never be happy with just half a million a year and neither will the execs or shareholders getting their moneys worth, nobody really cares what is created. In some sense you don't even need to make anything, just market some junk, make the company publics and the stocks alone will make you the profit because everyone is buying into the marketing hype. The main thing is to make a huge profit, not what you're making and this is what B&O is becoming, unlike many other high end audio brands who manage to survive and do well!

Most of the people who disagree with me and a few other members on the BS8 and Beolit12 on this forum are people like you said 10s of thousands of them, that buy for a brand image. They think it's a great little thing and buy into it. They think oww B&O – Prestige – must be high quality, and it does sound and look better than many other ipod docks. But is it B&O standards? Is it like a BL4000 or BL5 not even close. On top of that what TodDaniel was saying is that he also feels ripped off by the price because they are making an insanely huge profit off the name. Think about it, it costs not much more to produce that BS8 than it does almost any other ipod dock that's made in China, and even if the sound is marginally better it's not worth 5-10 times more than non-brand name ones...

Mr10Percent – Agree with you on that point as well that perhaps that is the problem that people are just buying B&O for style and image rather for quality. B&O has realised that and lowered their quality in order to fit those people. Hence everyone thinks “wow it looks so futiristic/retro and cool, and it says B&O on it, wow I'll have one” Even though it's not even made by them but made by some company similar to Foxconn...  Most people just look at aesthetics, not quality these days. The thing I always loved about B&O is unlike other companies they managed to combine both. Most of their products that were made in Europe were and are advanced for its time both in looks and functionality and the sound quality was always great. Now with the new range it's like you get all of but the sound and build quality of the other products....

TerryM – I completely agree, if you want something of the build quality of the B&O TVs with the same use of high quality components and materials you will pay the same amount if not more than B&O, especially if it's made in a developed country. I am afraid that B&O will eventually become like Nakamichi, a niche brand that used to be known for great design and high quality audio but over the years has dropped quality so badly (both sound and build) and makes nearly everything in China now. ?Hardly anyone buys Nakamichi anymore and their prices haven't really gone down with them outsourcing...

Mr10Percent – In regards to the Lotus, the chassis's of a Lotus are still made in Hethel, Norfolk not Malaysia. In fact Proton has not outsourced any of Lotus production to Malaysia...

Great analysis on the B&O statistics by the way :-) 

Moxxey – Fair point on the investment but Apple already had a factory in California and could have merely expanded it. The fact is that they wanted people to work 6 days a week 12 hours a day, something labour unions would rightly not allow. There's a reason why China is competitive, hell it's slave labour in comparison, fortunately some high end manufacturers still have morals and compassion for their employees and choose to create their own factories, perhaps for companies that produce hundreds of millions of units of something it's more difficult but I certainly hope that B&O won't be as mass produced as that or even a 1/100 of that, it would be quite scary!

Chris – Even with that level of commitment that the Japanese have as you say at Honda. Most Japanese companies (cars aside) outsource their goods to China. My point being is that no matter how good the workers are, no matter how many hours they work (including free overtime) and how dedicated they are to the company. Companies will still let them go, outsource to China, just to have much cheaper labour costs so they can make a higher profit, as most Japanese companies have!

Gene – I live in the USA as well. There are still people (over 10% accounted for unemployment and probably more like 20%) that would love to go back factory work. Everyime a factory opens such as the Fisker factory, or the Tesla factory, or American Apparel, or the Riccar vacuum factory, etc... they always managed to find skilled factory workers!!! Always if they want to that is! Maybe you're not willing to, and I am not, but there are still many who are and would be more than happy to.

The factory wages are not slave wages in the US, they are a little over what Japanes are at around $26 an hour which is about half as much as they pay in many European countries (including Denmark). In 1970 the federal minimum wage was actually much higher than it is now and PPP was also higher according to US Labour Statistcs calculating inflation. Almost everything was made in the US at this time. Many products were cheaper than they are now, for example American cars, houses, etc... (even calculating in todays cost with an inflation calculator). 

I am willing to pay higher prices for those products although they won't have to be much higher. As I stated the Riccar vacuum cleaners are made in the USA and they even mold the plastic there, they are high performance and excellent and start at $200 which is less than Malaysian made Dysons. American Apparel produces t-shirts, underwear, sweaters, etc... for the same price sometimes less than many Chinese made equivilents. I buy American made glass containers and glasses, for less than the price of many Chinese made ones I have seen. There are still many American made products, it's just that they have become Niche and you have to look to find them, not available at Wallmart to say the least.

I am not complaining about higher prices, as stated I think B&O is very fairly priced for what they make (with the exception of the BS8, Beolit 12, etc...) But when it comes to mass manufacturing, look at the few companies I have mentioned, there are thousands others likes that in America, you don't have to pay that much more for something decent! I support those companies and I can buy non-outsourced products without breaking the bank. Just save up and buy the best that will last you many years, this is how it used to be and how it should be! People complain about the environment yet they often are in this throwaway culture as well!

Moxxey – It's true that many don't want to work in factories these days but there are many who do and it's always possible to find such kids. The thing to do is to hire them when they're young, straight out of high school or college. I don't think RR, Lotus or other companies have too hard a trouble finding these people. Neither does Genesis, Vertu, and other companies... If I'm not mistaken many of Mulberry's products are made in China... I don't think that most of the population is getting Richer, it's the less than 1% that spends their money on British name brands who are getting richer whilst everyone else stays the same in poverty...

If I owned a company and produced a good, I would love it if my factory workers could actually afford to buy my products (or I would just give it to them as company christmas presents for their hard work). This is the case in European and American factories where people get paid 25-55$ an hour, but not so in the Chinese factories where they get $1.65 an hour... Although it's not cool for some people to do that kind of work, others think that working creating something is hip and they feel like craftsmen doing it. The higher salaries in Europe alone should be an incentive to many and if they are ambitious they can become a product manager for example and get even more money and work up the ranks...