Mr10Percent wrote:

I see the problem not as B&O getting more and more expensive. I see the problem as other manufacturers becoming more and more inexpensive

This is certainly true of TVs.

Apart from B & O,and Loewe,where does one look for a high quality product?

Following the demise of Fujitsu,and Pioneer,the trend amongst the Japanese,and Korean manufacturers,is ever lower prices accompanied by poorer quality.

I know that the BV 10 has suffered from PQ issues,but these are minor compared to the PQ horror stories being quoted for the mainstream manufacturers' top of the range TVs.

Then we have the issue of a Manufacturer's attitude/approach to identified problems,eg Sony stating that visible creases in the screen of their top of the range  HX923 are within manufacturing tolerances.

In 2007 my Pioneer TV cost £5000.

Factor in inflation,and general cost increases since then,and a B & O TV is not is not outrageously priced.

Just out of interest....when you r shiny new Aston MArtin has this fitted

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/aston-martin

Have you got a bespoke, hand made auto - or something fitted with outsourced components, produced partly in the far east ?? 😕

As i've mentioned way back in this thread....

Engine - designed by Ford (and probably Jag before that) and made in Germany

Carbon fibre - Canada

Leather - Sweden

Gearbox - Grazino, Italy

Headlights - Canada

Chasis - probably Lotus (and therefore now Malaysian)

Wheels - US Alu billets

Tires - Perelli

Stereo - Depends on option; (B&O - ???), (Alpine - China), (Linn - Scootlend)

Assembled in the Midlands with DNA from who knows where?

And another thing……..

After a quick swirl of lies, dam lies and bloody statistics whilst I was in the mood, I came up with the following analysis:- Please try for yourselves:-

You will need:-

a) Price data of all B&O equipment released after 1980 from the Beoworld or BeoCentral

b) Office of National Statistics (UK), Retail Price Index 1980 to 2011

c) Again from the ONS, Report ST41 (Household Disposable Income per head)

d) Cellotape

e) Some glue

f) A pair of Vals…..

Method:-

1.      The ST41 data is normalised. So HDI is 100 in 1970. Re-normalise so 1980 = 100.

2.      Apply Retail Price Index to products release price, going forward to today.

3.      Divide today’s money price of any B&O kit by the normalised disposable income value.

This method tries to emulate that if a given product of yester-year was maintained in production and which its price was inflated naturally in-line with the UK RPI how it compares with the normalised real disposable income of a household in the UK over the same period. I will call this “the Average Affordability Ratio”

Therefore the lower the Average Affordability Ratio of a product below, the more affordable it was/is in an average UK home over the period 1980 to 2011.

BeoSound 5        = 20.0

BeoSystem 8000 = 21.8

BeoSystem 5500 = 19:1

BeoSound 9000  =  17.3

BeoLab 8002       = 13.7

BeoLab 3             = 11.6

Beolab Pentas      = 15.5

Beolab 1               = 26.5

Beovision 7-40BR with stand and BL7.2     = 47.0

Beovision Avant 32DVD                             = 32.4

Beovision AV9000 (Monitor/VCR)             = 54.4

Beolink 7000      = 4.7

Beo6                   = 2.8

Empirically, I would suggest that based on the methodology and analysis given above, that latter-day products are actually more affordable than their yester-year equivalents or near-equivalents.

This article details some of the reasons from an American perspective on why Apple manufactures in China and why it will continue.  The reason I call it an American perspective is because of the complex US tax laws that will cause a company to outsource overseas.  The tax part doesn't apply to Denmark where the real reason for outsourcing is cheap labor and manufacturing flexibility.

I would concede the point to bentleyman and others that massive outsourcing is ultimately not a good idea for the EU.  I don't think quality is the issue.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michelinemaynard/2012/01/24/cheap-labor-taxes-location-why-apple-doesnt-build-products-in-the-u-s/

Linder, this is one key quote for me "If Apple executives suddenly decided they wanted their products built in the U.S., they’d have to invest billions of dollars in new factories. In China, the infrastructure is already there. “They made that decision decades ago,” Liker says. “I don’t think they’re revisiting it.”

I can't see any manufacturer deciding that they'd build a factory like this in the UK. I doubt you could get the (British) staff. I remember watching a programme on Peterborough a few months ago where they went there, filmed some kids who said that the Polish were taking all their jobs etc etc. When they were offered £10/hour to get out on the fields, they declined, said it was too much like hard work and said they could make more money on benefits.

I wonder how the benefits system performs in China? I bet they are almost forced in to work. We're too soft in the UK.

moxxey wrote:

Linder, this is one key quote for me "If Apple executives suddenly decided they wanted their products built in the U.S., they’d have to invest billions of dollars in new factories. In China, the infrastructure is already there. “They made that decision decades ago,” Liker says. “I don’t think they’re revisiting it.”

I can't see any manufacturer deciding that they'd build a factory like this in the UK. I doubt you could get the (British) staff. I remember watching a programme on Peterborough a few months ago where they went there, filmed some kids who said that the Polish were taking all their jobs etc etc. When they were offered £10/hour to get out on the fields, they declined, said it was too much like hard work and said they could make more money on benefits.

I wonder how the benefits system performs in China? I bet they are almost forced in to work. We're too soft in the UK.

The restaurant thing was indeed aimed at Andreas 🤒

The 20 somethings out there expect to be CEO within a week, or do little work for a large paypacket. Their idols are people like Paris Hilton and Kim Kardashion(?) who make a fortune for doing nothing! They also expect a lot for their dollar....

This is the reason why companies need to be competitive. Using the manufacturing dollar in a smarter way helps companies remain competitive. Quite often, when a new B&O product is released; the forum starts going wild about it not having certain components, being too expensive and that it should be made in Denmark

It makes me think of a sign I saw in a shop:

"We have 3 types of service: Good, Cheap and Fast. Please choose any two of these."

moxxey wrote:

Linder, this is one key quote for me "If Apple executives suddenly decided they wanted their products built in the U.S., they’d have to invest billions of dollars in new factories. In China, the infrastructure is already there. “They made that decision decades ago,” Liker says. “I don’t think they’re revisiting it.”

I can't see any manufacturer deciding that they'd build a factory like this in the UK. I doubt you could get the (British) staff. I remember watching a programme on Peterborough a few months ago where they went there, filmed some kids who said that the Polish were taking all their jobs etc etc. When they were offered £10/hour to get out on the fields, they declined, said it was too much like hard work and said they could make more money on benefits.

I wonder how the benefits system performs in China? I bet they are almost forced in to work. We're too soft in the UK.

I watched that, there was only one that did a full week!  All of the others phoned in sick or were late!!  Thats why our manufacturers have all been sold off 

My oldest friends boyfriend worked for Rover(Pressed Steel) in Swindon, and the horror stories you hear of the feckless staff and their almost sabotage of cars and equipment makes your blood boil. My first ever job leaving school was as the 91st employee at Honda, again in Swindon. What a bench mark those Japanese workers including Mr Honda himself set to me as a young man. Never have i since seen workers with so much commitment and a great commitment to perfection.

Here's the deal as I see it. I live in the USA. We no longer have trained factory workers or people interested in working for what they believe are "slave" wages. I have friends in many European countries and they tell me they have the same problems. The only people who are willing to work in factories are the up and coming people who live in countries like China. It's not their fault, it is ours. We all need to jump off out high horses and admit this isn't 1970. The world has changed and we need to adjust to that. We need to change or accept things the way they are. Are you willing to work in a factory doing repetitive tasks for 8 - 12 hours a day? Do you know anyone who does? Are you willing to pay higher prices for products? B&O isn't just thinking about profits. They are thinking of surviving! Put your money where your mouth is. Dkatz, this rant isn't directed toward you. It is just my opinion on this topic. Too many people complain about "outsourcing", but they seem to be the same people who complain about higher prices.

As for me, I stick with the vintage B&O equipment. The 70's and 80's were a simplier time and I know who made my gear.