I have to agree with you Bentleyman, personal issues shouldn't come into it. Anyone fancy a dig with me being a student? Might as well get it off your chest! It's surprising to see how many egos need rubbing.

Back to the topic in hand I reckon

adamhornsby wrote:

I have to agree with you Bentleyman, personal issues shouldn't come into it. Anyone fancy a dig with me being a student?

Agreed! 🤒

As a student and a member of Beoworld, i'm guessing you are one of the new generation of customers B&O are seeking to capture with the Play range?

Do you like the direction of B&O Play (i.e. entry level affordable smaller products like BS8 and Beolit12)? Do you think B&O should have 2 distinct strands of product? - entry level stuff aimed at the younger custom/mid market as well as top end stuff, running in tandem with each other? Do you think that is a good strategy?

Having thought more about it myself, I think it could be a good strategy, but hope that by doing so it doesnt hurt the 'prestigious' image B&O still enjoy. I think this is a significant danger. If it did B&O are in danger of just merging into the mainstream and I think will then struggle massively to compete with much bigger, richer competitors in the market-place. The effect of this would be a de-valueing of the brand - not something I'd like to see.

What do you reckon? 

Regarding China's inabilities to make decent quality products , they don't seem to be harming Apple's reputaion. They continually sweep the board at the annual PC magazine awards , have been for the last so many years - and one thing people always mention is the superb build quality..

All B&O need to do is get a brilliant quality control guy in charge like Tim Cook.

Some decent software writers would be a good idea too.

I found this on another website , interesting stuff regarding China;

“By 2004, Apple had largely turned to foreign manufacturing. Guiding that decision was Apple’s operations expert, Timothy D. Cook, who replaced Mr. Jobs as chief executive last August, six weeks before Mr. Jobs’s death… For Mr. Cook, the focus on Asia ‘came down to two things,’ said one former high-ranking Apple executive. Factories in Asia ‘can scale up and down faster’ and ‘Asian supply chains have surpassed what’s in the U.S.’ The result is that ‘we can’t compete at this point,’ the executive said.”

“Another critical advantage for Apple was that China provided engineers at a scale the United States could not match. Apple’s executives had estimated that about 8,700 industrial engineers were needed to oversee and guide the 200,000 assembly-line workers eventually involved in manufacturing iPhones. The company’s analysts had forecast it would take as long as nine months to find that many qualified engineers in the United States,” Duhigg and Bradsher report. “In China, it took 15 days.”

Flappo wrote:

I found this on another website , interesting stuff regarding China;

Thanks Flappo...

Exactly!

Having recently bought a Miele washing machine,and tumble dryer,I was intrigued to notice that the washing machine is made in Germany,but the tumble dryer was not.

Reference to

TerryM wrote:

The introduction of two outsourced products aimed at a particular market segment/demographic is hardly to be construed as an overall 'thin end of the wedge'.

As I have mentioned before,the B & W Zepellin is made in China.

Has that devalued B & W,whose Nautillus speaker costs £55000,as a brand?

Fair points 🤒

Hopefully a cheaper range of products, outsourced will not effect the brands image or the perception of the brand around the world.

This is a great conversation.  I have learned a few things.  One of the things I have learned is that Bang and Olufsen is ultimately going to do just fine.  This website and its members have proved many times, there is a deep passion and love for B&O products.  Sometimes B&O may make a decision or build a product that many of us don't like because of style or how and where it is manufactured.  I purchased a Beolit 12 this week and really like it. However there were some B&O products that I absolutely hated.  I won't mention which products I hate because there are some members who have those products and really enjoy them.  I am looking forward to other new products coming from Bang and Olufsen.  I know there will be more lively discussion.  Thanks,

TerryM wrote:

 Comparison should not be made with the mainstream manufacturers whose top of the line models,whether LCD/LED,or Plasma,are suffering from major Picture Quality artifacts,or Quality Control issues,and where the public demand is for ever lower prices

 

But so are B&O's TV's!

Just look at the BV10 clouding problems! 

TerryM wrote:

Having recently bought a Miele washing machine,and tumble dryer,I was intrigued to notice that the washing machine is made in Germany,but the tumble dryer was not.

Reference to

link

reveals they have production plants in Austria, The Czech Republic,Romania,and.........wait for it......China.

Is this the end of Miele as we know it?

Re the price of B & O TVs

 Comparison should not be made with the mainstream manufacturers whose top of the line models,whether LCD/LED,or Plasma,are suffering from major Picture Quality artifacts,or Quality Control issues,and where the public demand is for ever lower prices

The only competitor/ price comparison should be with Loewe.

The hope/expectation with the purchase of a B & O TV is that the component/build quality is of a far higher level than in a competitor's product.

The introduction of two outsourced products aimed at a particular market segment/demographic is hardly to be construed as an overall 'thin end of the wedge'.

As I have mentioned before,the B & W Zepellin is made in China.

Has that devalued B & W,whose Nautillus speaker costs £55000,as a brand?

 

 

As the resident Miele specialist here, I will clarify a few points. All washing machines, washer dryers and tumble dryers are made in Gutersloh; Germany and always have been. Only the large capacity machines for the US market are made in czech. Everything else is made in plants throughout Germany, including plant parts in Eurskirchen and Gutersloh. Romania and Austria are also both part production plants. Romania being the catchup electronics plant. The Chinese plant is not owned by Miele, it is ran with German company Melitta as part of a joint venture producing vacuums for the eastern market. 

Miele is very proud of their German heritage, and so am I, and I will be a future employee with them hopefully. 

Bentleyman, I am a B&O fan, my bs6 is great, upgraded it from the bs2. The a8 are the best earphones I've ever heard. As for Beolit 12, I am swayed more to the Sonos system, it sounds fantastic. And as a retailer I could get it for half price. Loewe also have an air speaker which looks promising.