Totally agre with Dkatz.  Dont knock BOSE though. 30 / 40 years on their Pro 802 speakers take some beating and my Acoustimass AM5 speakers were the best speakers that I ever owned!!! Far superior to any of B&O's offerings at the time!!!

Dkatz wrote:

By supporting Chinese made products you are supporting the system they have in place, factory owners in China and foreign companies getting rich off of workers getting paid some of the lowest wages in the world 

Good luck with that quest. I guarantee you one thing: you won't change a thing. Consumers (British consumers being some of the worst) are obsessed with shopping, getting brands cheaply and generally do not care where products are made.

I have a friend who works in a store that sells Loro Piana, Armani, Brioni, D&G and other mens clothes. More and more of their products are being manufactured in China. They've not had a single complaint - not one - that the quality has reduced or that they have "made in China" on the washing label. In fact, no-one notices. They just care that they've bought a brand.

This is the fundamental problem. And we've completely lost track of the original argument, which was the quality of Chinese manufacturing. As we've seen with the Beolit 12, it's great. That's a top product, receiving widespread positive reaction.

So, by all means go on a quest not to buy Chinese manufactured products, but you'll be sadly banging your head against the wall as the demand out there, from consumers, is driving developers to reduce costs and, as a result, find cheaper manufacturers.

And, yes, it is somewhat ironic that Chinese are coming to Britain to buy our (European) brands and goods.

Dkatz wrote:

Why do people need one of these things? I don't like the whole world going into iPod integration. Why not save up and buy some BL4000 or BL3 speakers that will last you a couple of decades and just buy a connector to hook it up to your iPod which you can put on your desk? Then you will have real B&O build and sound quality with your iPod or computer or Mp3 device or even CD player... It's products like the BS8 that ruin B&Os image not only because they outsource but mostly because those products are mass-market consumer products of the likes of Bose and other such companies not high end audio manufacturers!

Absolutely correct....totally agree with this.

Bentleyman wrote:

Dkatz wrote:

Why do people need one of these things? I don't like the whole world going into iPod integration. Why not save up and buy some BL4000 or BL3 speakers that will last you a couple of decades and just buy a connector to hook it up to your iPod which you can put on your desk? Then you will have real B&O build and sound quality with your iPod or computer or Mp3 device or even CD player... It's products like the BS8 that ruin B&Os image not only because they outsource but mostly because those products are mass-market consumer products of the likes of Bose and other such companies not high end audio manufacturers!

 

 

Absolutely correct....totally agree with this.

🤒

Great idea guys but it's also B&O's fault too.  Clearly, they realise the iPod, iPhone market but they need to market the fact that BL3's etc will sound amazing when connected to your iPhone etc.  alot of people probably do not realise this. In my mind, the BL3's are incredibly expensive and being honest ive never been keen on BL4000s (although the BL6000 is my all time favourite loudspeaker) so maybe the dealers need to show working examples of BL3's with iPhones & iPads attached to them.

Maybe the products are already there for the new generation and B&O just doesn't realise.  It would be nice also to see B&O campaigns in the affluent, young reads - GQ, Esquire, Men's Health etc. I've never seen an advert for the BS8 which is a little sad. 

iPhones and iPad 3's connected to BL3's would make a very nice bijou apartment feature!

Actually Moxxey, being a total male model fashion victim, I can confirm that Dolce & Gabbana do not make clothes in China. ALL of their clothes (except underwear) is made at the factory that they own in Italy. Paul Smith tried making his cheaper shirts in China but pulled the plug after 6 mths due to poor quality. (Yes they were a bit cheap feeling) - his cheaper range is now manufactured in Portugal with his slightly more expensive range coming from Italy.  I also noticed that my Louis Vuiiton iPhone case is made in France and my Dolce&Gabbana one is made in Italy.  This goes to prove that the top brands do still produce in Europe.   I would very much like to see Europe prosper and get out of this recession and I think the way in which we will do this is to produce more in Europe.

I have a real pride in Europe and i'd like to have the choice of being able to buy a product made in one of its countries.

Dkatz wrote:

In regards to peoples posts on Racism. I have met more Chinese people who think they produce bad quality products compared to Europe than Europeans or Americans. I lived with many Chinese flatmates and most of them were proud of their Chinese heritage but they all still thought that European made products were much much better quality. There is in fact an image among Chinese that their own products are inferior. This is why most rich Chinese will buy Lattanzi italian handmade shoes for $5000-$10000, or real LV, Hermes, leather products made in France, and even B&O made in Denmark.

This is exactly right - and is precisely the point(s) I was trying to make on page 1 of this thread. Dkatz has given us all numerous really interesting and accurate lessons/comparisons on a very wide variety of real-life high end luxury products during this thread. All those posters who have tried to argue contrary to all these well cited examples need to read and understand what is being said here - because it's all true, all verifyable and all very accurate.

In case any members didnt really bother to read my earlier lengthy post(s) on page 1 of this thread, I gave a real life, bang upto date example of how both Rolls-Royce and Bentley Motors reported 31% and 37% increases in their respective order books announced just a matter of a couple of weeks ago. Both luxury car makers have commented that they put the majority of their increase in orders down to wealthy customers from 'emerging' economies in China and the Far-East.

Yet i'll wager you will not be hearing of R-R or Bentley outsourcing their production to China. The reason why China (and the Far Easts) wealthy citizens are ordering cars from RR/Bentley is due to the very fact that they are made, by hand, using traditional skills by highly paid craftsmen IN THIS COUNTRY. Those wealthy Chinese people are starting to be able to afford these high priced consumer products & they want the status, prestige, luxury, snobbery, exclusivity and quality of things made (in reletively small volumes) here in the west. Why? Because they are the best products that money can buy, and these newly wealthy can afford them (and desperately want to show the world that they own them).

B&O going down the outsourcing route in order to capture more of the 'middle-market' (in terms of product pricing etc.) i.e. B&O Play is a disappointing strategy for a luxury Danish electronics manufacturer with such an illustrious 85 year history.........However, it is not the ONLY strategy available to them I believe - its certainly NOT the strategy of many many other makers of high end goods such as RR/Bentley, Lattanzi, LV, Hermes and many many other brands that Dkatz has given good examples of during this thread. If outsourcing is the way everything is going these days and therefore inevitable for B&O's survival - could those members that hold that view explain to those of us who dont, why it is that a lot of the world's very top brands are actually not going down the outsource please...? 

Simple question : As Bang & Olufsen fans and consumers, ask yourself do you want the brand to move more 'middle-market' and put out an increasingly prominent range of products that retail under $1000, and will probably have life expectancies of more like 3 to 5 years OR do you want B&O to shift more the other way (back to where they used to be) producing extremely exclusive, high quality products with high price tags, but are built to last 20, 30, 40+ years.....?

Regards,

This discussion reminds me of the Porsche dilemma in the late 90's. Company was going down the tubes, only had one high end product, 911, which was uneconomic. So they introduced a much cheaper Boxter which part shared with a new model 911, then the Cayenne, Panemera - the latter which, to the purist, were mass market and diluted the true sports heritage of Porsche (well maybe not the boxter). The point being that it saved the company, had it not been for the broad reach diffusion products there would have been no company. I honestly feel that some here would prefer B&O closed up shop now. They have had some torrid years recently, so keep the business going they really have to sell products in volume to consumers now. It is not as though the BS8 or BeoLit 12 are cheap products, anything but in their market segment. The BV7 etc are many times more expensive than the typical consumer product -  to the average person they are really high end and very aspirational.

BTW there is no comparison between Rolls Royce, Louis Vuitton, Hermes etc and B&O. the former are much higher end than B&O. Many people can afford to own B&O, only the truly wealthy can really afford these other high end brands. B&O are more in the Aston Martin, Porsche category , they are not Bugatti, Rolls Royce or even Ferrari, Lamborghini. [Sorry for the car stuff, it is just something I know about]

Oasis wrote:

Interesting thing behind all the talks about luxury and premium brands is for many of them, their largest market (and profit earning) comes from China! Look at the amount of flagship stores they are all fighting to open in China

Precisely my point Oasis..🤒

The 'emerging markets' of China and other far eastern countries are quite naturally leading to an explosion of wealth in those countries, and the numbers of newly-wealthy people over there are growing at an extraordinary rate. What do these 'new' wealthy people want with there new found spending power? They want exclusive, luxury, top end products. Do they buy those products domestically from Chinese firms we have never heard of in the west? No, of course not, they want to acquire the worlds best products and an increasing numer of them are starting to be able to afford them these days. Hence the reason why all the world premium brands are opening flagship stores & car dealerships over there.

That, however, does not mean that those luxury brands opening stores there should start manufacturing their products there though.

Again, Bentley are made in Crewe and Rolls-Royce now build cars in Goodwood. If they suddenly decided to outsource & shifted production into China, computerized all processes (because the craftsmen could not be sourced there), and introduced a 'Rolls~Royce Play' range of vehicles retailing at only £15,000, do you think these wealthy chinese would still be buying them? Do you think RR/Bentley would maintain their prestige/image/desirability?

Or would those wealthy chinese turn their attention towards other luxury marques such Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti etc.   They want exlusivity and prestige and quality. They do not want something made in the next province that is "competitively priced".......