Oh jesus christ 🙁

Here are some freshly sanded Beovox 80.2's at the summer workshop.

thanks mika!

where's the snow?

happy holidays! 

There ought to be some two inches now - the pic was taken just about exactly six months ago...

I just thought it would bring the discussion back closer to topic 😎

Happy holidays as well, everybody!

Well isn't this thread a bundle of joy and happyness this Xmas time 😎

So thinking about share prices, GREAT I can take some of my redundancy money and buy shares while they're cheap! 😁

Apart from that am sure B&O will do just fine - the gorge BV9 and their tellies will sell well, so will their Audio things, however I hope the BS5 sells well, although I have my doubts for now 😛

Razlaw:

1.. BS3 does NOT decode dolby hd or dts hd

2. Decoding may be done in a blu-ray player

3. if the player does the decoding, it decodes it into a multichannel linear pcm which the BS3 accepts via HDMI and does output. As I said, the BS3 will display that info.

4. The only question is the maximum level, 48, 96 or 192 khz. The vast majority of blu-ray are 48khz so it is almost irrelevant whether the higher formats are output.

These points are correct - my PS3, for example, cannot output TrueHD or DTS-MA as bitstream (i.e. without decoding it first).  What is output is the uncompressed lossless audio in PCM to whatever receiver is plugged in.  Per the HDMI spec, this only requires HDMI 1.1.  No further decoding is needed.  As a result, what you will hear is either the full lossless audio track, or sweet FA.  HDCP is really a non issue - if it was, you'd be seeing nothing as well as hearing a crap soundtrack/nothing.  If you have a PS3, hit 'select' and it will tell you exactly what it's outputting.

It doesn't matter that B&O haven't specifically added that the device specifically supports PCM, as this is absolutely fundamental to what the receiver *does*.  Any format it does support as bitstream (DD, DTS) it would have to decode to PCM before converting to analogue to send to the speakers.  And what about the few blu-rays I have (music) that don't even HAVE a compressed HD audio track?  On one, there's either PCM 5.1 or PCM 2.0.  If it didn't support PCM, the receiver would be absoutely useless and you'd hear nothing from ANY music format.  Not to support it not only makes absoutely zero sense, it's pretty much an impossibility to suggest it might be the case.

Thank you! 

Affineur said...

I agree with your analysis as  far as why "average" consumers do not buy B&O, but this is actually the point. B&O are not marketing to "average" consumers, they are marketing primarily to design-centric audio-video enthusiasts. Yes the "average" consumer who wants to put up a too big panel in their livingroom (lounge) to watch sports, "reality" broadcast television, and bad action movies will not choose B&O. But someone who is interested in what I will call "fine living" which includes a significant focus on design and integration, will naturally gravitate towards B&O. Perhaps the decline in B&O sales is in part due to first-world society, in general, having less and less interest in the more sophisticated side of the home environment. I certainly am seeing more and more of this lack of sophistication.

          Holysheet Twatman!   Mate, you ARE the reason B&O are going down the toilet. I bet you wear a cravat to crap!

Ask any B&O dealer on the planet to describe a B&O rep or staff member and I can guarantee they will describe YOU and your ''up your own ass'' attitude.

  The only people who can save B&O are the dealers. The problem is, B&O lost their grip on reality a long time ago and wont listen to them. In fact most dealers are treated like something B&O trod on getting out of the old Range Rover.

  Toodle pip, and remember to wipe...

Razlaw:

1.. BS3 does NOT decode dolby hd or dts hd

2. Decoding may be done in a blu-ray player

3. if the player does the decoding, it decodes it into a multichannel linear pcm which the BS3 accepts via HDMI and does output. As I said, the BS3 will display that info.

4. The only question is the maximum level, 48, 96 or 192 khz. The vast majority of blu-ray are 48khz so it is almost irrelevant whether the higher formats are output.

These points are correct - my PS3, for example, cannot output TrueHD or DTS-MA as bitstream (i.e. without decoding it first).  What is output is the uncompressed lossless audio in PCM to whatever receiver is plugged in.  Per the HDMI spec, this only requires HDMI 1.1.  No further decoding is needed.  As a result, what you will hear is either the full lossless audio track, or sweet FA.  HDCP is really a non issue - if it was, you'd be seeing nothing as well as hearing a crap soundtrack/nothing.  If you have a PS3, hit 'select' and it will tell you exactly what it's outputting.

It doesn't matter that B&O haven't specifically added that the device specifically supports PCM, as this is absolutely fundamental to what the receiver *does*.  Any format it does support as bitstream (DD, DTS) it would have to decode to PCM before converting to analogue to send to the speakers.  And what about the few blu-rays I have (music) that don't even HAVE a compressed HD audio track?  On one, there's either PCM 5.1 or PCM 2.0.  If it didn't support PCM, the receiver would be absoutely useless and you'd hear nothing from ANY music format.  Not to support it not only makes absoutely zero sense, it's pretty much an impossibility to suggest it might be the case.

We have been through all this before in one of the longest threads in beoworld history- I have been manufacturing product for the brands for ten years including BR for the major brands. It would be wonderful if HDMI was all it was cracked up to be- in the manufacturing world im afraid its a different story. In theory everything should work!

Correction you will hear the fundamental sound track so to suggest you will hear nothing is not correct. Additionally, one can end up with dumbed down HD audio as a result of compliance issues and this is proven to be the case with all panasonic BR linked to BS3.

The 'specification' of HDMI and its reverse  compatablity is not a prcise science im afraid- The BS3 does not support the output of full HD audio and the specs from B&O confirm this.

355f:

Correction you will hear the fundamental sound track so to suggest you will hear nothing is not correct. Additionally, one can end up with dumbed down HD audio as a result of compliance issues and this is proven to be the case with all panasonic BR linked to BS3.

The 'specification' of HDMI and its reverse  compatablity is not a prcise science im afraid- The BS3 does not support the output of full HD audio and the specs from B&O confirm this.

It will depend on the implementation - for a kick off, if the PS3 is connected to a non-compliant device, it will show absoutely nothing on the screen.  From this, you can deduce that if you're seeing anything, then it HDCP works.

I'm not sure what specs you're looking at that proclaim that the BS3 incompatible with high resolution PCM audio - none I can find even mention it.  Uncompressed standard Dolby Digital is likely to be at least 16-bit/48kHz (albeit from a lossy source), so the BS3 will have to support that at the very least.  Do you know for certain that it doesn't have 192kHz/24-bit DACS, just about every other semi-decent AV receiver has for the last few years?

Ok this has little to do with compliancy- obviously, if it was not at all compliant you get a blank screen which in fact is what transpired when the BS3 first came out when connected to a sky box.

The issue really is how the receiver handles the incomming stream and what it does with it. In theory, reading all the internet data on the subject it leads one to believe that if a product is HDMI 1.1 then all is well. In fact if one looks at the receivers that maintain that they are capable of outputting HI DEF audio without any downconversion taking place they all happen to be HDMI 1.3 or higher and make a highlight of it in the specs!

Thats not to say that there are not a small handful of receivers that are 1.1 that can output it when connected to a suitable product- the high end japanese being an example  - and it will clearly say that in all the specs- its a major selling point after all- I regret in the case of the BS3 it does not do - there maybe a difference- albeit slight but there is a downconversion process taking place.

I have tested it with all the panasonic models- no joy and some sony products to- same story

I wrote directly to B&O about this months and months ago asking them to confirm a third party BR player that will output HD audio without downconversion taking place- they simply must have tested a player to confirm the facts- then I would have taken said player to our lab and connected it to BS3 for confirmation.

But B&O does not want to reveal said facts- enough said- to me a simple question- please tell me the player that when so connescted allows the BS3 to output FULL HD audio!