tournedos wrote:

Have you asked the sheep which they would prefer?

 

😂

Probably the shave, since they would get cold. 

rednik wrote:

They have at least launched the preowned section of the website link no ideas if anyone uses it though.

I have tried this.  There were some demo BL9s for sale, and I inquired and received an almost immediate response.  The BL9s disappeared within a few days - I assume they sold.  On the other hand, there were some BL Wireless posted by another dealer, and I sent 2 inquires with no response to either.  Why no response?  No clue if it the system (probably not since I tried twice)?  the dealer (probable)?  the price point (people move faster to sell $10K vs. ~$300)?

Stan

Stan wrote:

I have tried this.

It's also a bit out-of-date. I was going to pull the trigger on a pre-loved BV9 a few weeks ago, but missed out on the sale. It's still listed as available.

There are also no options for finding a BV10 and other newer products, even though a few dealers have these for sale. 

Talking of getting a response. I have the opposite problem. A fair few times I've emailed my dealer and have not received a reply. I have to go in to the store to follow up, a few days later, and they tell me "we've read your email"!

TripEnglish wrote:

One of the fundamental problems that we're now coming up against is that the buyers who are coming into the market and replacing our old buyers have never been quality driven. They have been taught to pay a lot of lip service to quality, which confuses some people, but not to actually seek it out and pay the premium required to obtain it.

I remember training at B&O over 10 years ago and the design story being that David Lewis did not build to a price point. He simply built the best product he could and then they tallied it up and figured out what it would cost. 

While I admire that method and lament its disappearance in the landscape of production, it's clear that we can't continue to be competitive in our own market without reflecting the trends of our customers and that means both pricing and user experience. It's like if Louis Vuitton continued to make better and better trunks and never acknowledged that 90% of travellers use wheely suitcases with telescoping handles. 

In my opinion there will always be customers who want quality and seek it out.  However, whereas with a pair of speakers, such as Beolab 5's for instance, you may well expect a lifespan of say 10, 15, or perhaps even 20 years or more with them, and thus gaining an excellent return on your investment given how little real advances there are in speaker design and implementation, a TV has technology that is contanstly being updated, thus making an expensive investment in a TV a precarious thing.

I take a point that you once made in that if one purchases a cutting edge TV technology wise, that in a year or so the technology will be out of date and all one will be left with is a plastic fantastic box with outdated technology, whereas with a B&O set, the inner and outer beauty of it remains.

This is undoubtedly true, but it will also be quite galling to have invested a very considerable amount of money in a B&O TV, only in a year or two to be able to buy something for 1/4 or less of the price, with noticeably better picture quality, as screen technology in LCD devices particularly, continues to improve annually with OLED the next big technology jump around the corner with LG gearing up for mass production of large screen OLED devices.

And within a couple of years, if one was to try and sell ones expensive B&O TV and trade up to a later, more advanced and better model, the value of ones investment as a second hand proposition is going to be very poor indeed.

In a sense, the situation B&O face with their TV's is not dissimilar to computers.  I personally have both Macs and a PC (to keep my hand in re MS products), as I'm involved in IT, but generally the effecitive life of a computer if you want to run the latest software is around 3 - 4 years commercial use, and about 4-5 for home use - bear in mind I'm generalising, but it's a truism nonetheless.  

Doing my sums, shows me that with a custom built Mac, assuming I get nothing for it when I let it go for a new one, it costs me on average about A$1,000.00 per annum on depreciation.  For the quality and the overall user experience involved, I find this an acceptable sum.

However, if I look at something like a B&O 7-40, which is A$20,000.00 in this country and apply a similar depreciation scale of acceptability, I would have to keep the 7-40 for around 20 years to get the same return on my investment.  Given how fast technology in TV's and displays is changing, there is no way I would keep a TV, B&O or not, for 20 years now.  In the CRT days, with stable and mature technology, I would keep a TV for perhaps 10 - 13 or so years, whereas now it would be more like 5 - 8.

Therefore, I don't think the problem is so much that people don't seek quality, or are looking for throwaway devices; the problem is that in areas like TV's, the technology is advancing so rapidly, that an very expensive and pretty box, with a picture that is quickly outdated is an investment liability unfortunately.  If apple can produce stunningly designed products, built to extremely high standards of quality engineering, and at sensible, but not cheap prices, I would say this is the sort of direction where B&O needs to head with it's visual products.

I'd be more than happy to buy a beauftiful looking and finished B&O TV, outsourced re manufacturing and made in Taiwan or China, with the latest state of the art technology, for a price premium over the likes of Sony/Panasonic/LG/Samsung etc, similar to the price premium I pay for  apple products over a generic made in the back of a fish and chip shop PC.  

So perhaps double the price or thereabouts, but not four and five times the price - simply put, the rewards are not really there for the outlay with B&O's TV's at the present time given the rapidly changing technology and the prices B&O are currently asking.

Speakers are a different matter; with relatively mature technolgy, B&O offer some of the best products one can buy in both performance and long term investment prospects.

Just my 2cents worth and IMHO as always...🙂

Best Regards

Jon... 😐

Exc post , i totally agree

It's like the bv7-55

I saw one on demo in May for £17k , now it's been outdated by the 3d model. I wonder what trade in you'd get for that behemoth ?

If B&O made modular tv's like sony's profeel from the 80's they could differentiate themselves - a tv you can upgrade as new technology comes along - slip a panel in here - etc

Just a thought

Flappo wrote:

Exc post , i totally agree

It's like the bv7-55

I saw one on demo in May for £17k , now it's been outdated by the 3d model. I wonder what trade in you'd get for that behemoth ?

If B&O made modular tv's like sony's profeel from the 80's they could differentiate themselves - a tv you can upgrade as new technology comes along - slip a panel in here - etc

 

Just a thought

The BV7 is pretty much a modular TV, with separate speakers, panel and processor. Your argument still stands however when you consider swapping BV7 panels.

Puncher wrote:

...when you consider swapping BV7 panels.

Which is what I do! I've swapped out my BV7-40 panels 3 times now. Two upgrades, one as it was faulty and B&O replaced the panel. However, the speakers, stand and other components remain.

It's a reasonable value approach to keeping up with the latest BV7-40. However, I'm stuck on the MKIV as I don't see a compelling reason to move up to the MKV panel or the forthcoming 3D panel.

moxxey wrote:

It's a reasonable value approach to keeping up with the latest BV7-40. However, I'm stuck on the MKIV as I don't see a compelling reason to move up to the MKV panel or the forthcoming 3D panel.

...which brings up a thought: is a TV really such a fast moving target any longer? 10 years ago most flat TVs were crap and I couldn't stand watching them, but they have evolved fast. Now that we have matured at FullHD in all non-kitchen size TVs and the picture quality is good enough in any respectable set, what is there to wait for? 400 Hz vs. whatever is just a marketing gimmick, LED backlighting is a way to make cheaper/thinner panels while trying to convince people it is because of picture quality, and many people have already realized 3D is something they don't need nor want.

I'm sure there will be new technologies, but I can't see how they could make the basic act of watching TV that much more enjoyable. I believe most future development will be at the sources, and the current modularity of, say, BV7 is well able to take advantage of that. Just replace/upgrade whatever is feeding the panel, perhaps upgrade the panel when it breaks beyond repair or you get bored with it. And all the while the speakers can stay.

tournedos wrote:

moxxey wrote:

It's a reasonable value approach to keeping up with the latest BV7-40. However, I'm stuck on the MKIV as I don't see a compelling reason to move up to the MKV panel or the forthcoming 3D panel.

I'm sure there will be new technologies, but I can't see how they could make the basic act of watching TV that much more enjoyable. 

Correct. It's just the size that's important for many people. I'd love to move up to a BV7-46, but B&O won't provide this option. There's a huge jump from 40 to 55. The only other option is a BV10-46, but I'd have to get rid of my stand, speaker and other components to accomodate the BV10-46 and the audio is inferior.

That's my only dilemma. I agree that the panel upgrade isn't compelling enough to make the switch, but I'm now "stuck" with my 40" TV as there are no real viable options (from B&O). Ironically, B&O are likely to lose a sale through these lack of options as, sooner rather than later, I'll move up to a 46" and it will have to be a Loewe.

Mind you, I think I could swap out my two-year-old BV7-40, stand and speaker for a brand new 46" Loewe, with movable stand and speaker, and earn money? :)

Whether Bang & Olufsen get things right or wrong, I never doubt B&Os committment to make a great quality product.

We find our biggest challenge at the moment, is that, as a rule, our clients do not find B&O user interfaces as intuitive as many others. The current crop of user interfaces be it on screen or on a hand held device come accross to many clients as very dated and clumsy.

The customers make their decisions very quickly, sometimes even before hearing or seeing the product 'in action'. 'How' they are going to work the product is becoming one of the most important factors in their buying decision.

For example, my clients who rightly or wrongly buy a Sonos component for their systems never phone me to ask how it works once it is set up. My BeoSound 5 customers, whilst enjoying the sumptuous sound and the benefits of MOTS, find all the levers wheels etc very confusing and we do many service calls just to help them work the device.

IMHO the Beo4/Beo6/BeoSound5 interfaces need to be much more user friendly.