battle los angeles will be good on DD 5.1 becouse of the way it is mixed in a sound studio 

i have listen to loads of films some are way better on pro logic thru PCM than a lesser bluray film

I am suprised that most DVD/BD are not just basic pcm as most people dont have an AV reciever i think in the future that may happen 

my experience working on high end property developements is that wealthy people dont really care about AV or high end systems 

if i ask about about B&O they are never thought about in there installations they can build a good basement cinema for £10 k 

when  i visited a good HI FI dealer they said even the top Samsung LCD at £5 k just wont sell and they sell far more of the £ 1.5 k versions which are still stunning on Blu ray 

People in general dont buy quality products like they used, its all throw away and most people arent enthusiast about AV 

Roger wrote:

Also, in my new Audi I got one of the best sounding audio systems around. I carry my music on my iPhone, and it can stream stereo sound to the sound system in the car via bluetooth or I can dock.

Last night I was driving down the road using the AMI... Pink Floyd / The Happiest Days Of Our Lives did an immediate, abrupt transition to Franck Pourcel / Tritsch-Tratsch Fast Polka. In the microsecond shock -I almost drove off the road. As the Polka picked up... I started laughing out loud with visions of Looney Toons characters whacking each other over the head.

As I sobered up and looked around, I had a moment of enlightenment. The new Audi interiors have been a bit of a love/hate for me. Gone are the classic, teutonic views and feel -replaced with an almost "transformer" like design of the Japanese/Korean manufacturers with all the doo-dads like the AMI. Then I realized... I think I am just getting old. I am becoming my father, and like him... just can't (quickly) come to grips with ever advancing design.

The designers are drawing for younger and younger customers. Times are changing and while I am an aluminum and wood B&o guy... I am doing my best to appreciate their recent offerings more. I never had any interest in the BS5 concept, but I am warming -one Polka at a time.

MGBGTV8 wrote:

People in general dont buy quality products like they used, its all throw away and most people arent enthusiast about AV 

My first flat screen was a Panasonic 37" cost me USD 2.200,00 back in 2002 I guess, 3 years ago it got damaged from voltage overload, (the power cables in the the street got stolen and the thieves shorted one phase to neutral and I got 220 V on the 110 V line), a repair from a non autorized dealer cost me USD 400.00, and after 3 month the TV was down again, this time I went to Panasonic and after 2 month they told that they needed a "special" PC board and delivery time would be 3 month. Cost would be another USD 450.00

Meanwhile I bought a cheap LG 32" for some USD 400.00, and when Panasonic came back with the estimated cost of the Panasonic I decided to buy one more LG but 42", in the future I will buy only cheap 1-2 year old models and let them run until they brake or get totally outdated. I'm totally satesfied with the 2 screens, I get over the air HD in good quality and thats enoughs for me.

The sound coming with HD is not always top quality, some channels is only 2 channel stereo and some 5-1, I try to manage the sound through an Onkyo amp/reciever, to my BLs, but normaly what comes in is what you get.

As Jaff, I am more into Aluminum and wood, and my main sound system will allways be one of my vintage with vinyl.

If B&O want me back as a new buying costumer, they will have to come up with something interesting, regarding price and design.

But as Jaff mentioned, todays design and prices are for a younger generation, where the quality isn't the important thing.

When I was young, I could not afford all of the things I can afford now. I'm glad that when some of you were young, you were able to afford the finest. I'm glad to see B&O trying to appeal to a younger, and perhaps also a less affluent audience. I'm not sure that younger and less affluent means that you don't or can't appreciate quality, it may just mean that you can't afford it. Aspirational products are fine with me.

I have a house full of B&O, purchased over many years, sadly I will never be the kind of customer often decribed by some of the dealers on this forum, capable of financing a custom installation in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

I'm waiting with interest to see what we get in the future. More affordable solutions to integrate non-Beo TVs, perhaps more other digital products.

One of the fundamental problems that we're now coming up against is that the buyers who are coming into the market and replacing our old buyers have never been quality driven. They have been taught to pay a lot of lip service to quality, which confuses some people, but not to actually seek it out and pay the premium required to obtain it.

I remember training at B&O over 10 years ago and the design story being that David Lewis did not build to a price point. He simply built the best product he could and then they tallied it up and figured out what it would cost. 

While I admire that method and lament its disappearance in the landscape of production, it's clear that we can't continue to be competitive in our own market without reflecting the trends of our customers and that means both pricing and user experience. It's like if Louis Vuitton continued to make better and better trunks and never acknowledged that 90% of travellers use wheely suitcases with telescoping handles. 

TripEnglish wrote:

It's like if Louis Vuitton continued to make better and better trunks and never acknowledged that 90% of travellers use wheely suitcases with telescoping handles. 

... and not realised ocean liners with spacious holds had been replaced by air liners with a new set of constraints ...

I flew yesterday for the first in along time, and I could not believe how little overhead space short haul jets now have - I had to slide my wheely bin in sideways and that got me sour looks for being a cabin hog 😜

Overhead bins are meant to be used for hats coats and ladies hand bags, not suit cases. I spend hours every week having to re write load sheets due to the fact that people insist on bringing their luggage on board.

TripEnglish wrote:

They have been taught to pay a lot of lip service to quality, which confuses some people, but not to actually seek it out and pay the premium required to obtain it.

But that's just the nature of our fickle consumer-driven market. Only a few years ago, we bought expensive products to last. We didn't change our TVs for years. Many years. Same with a sitting room hi-fi. We kept our cars for far longer, kept the same briefcase until it was battered and we weren't too worried about upgrading our mobile phone.

Now all of this has changed. It's changed because everything became very cheap and affordable. People demand a new TV as they can afford to put a £800 product on their credit card and clear it with their missus. A year later and they can repeat the process. What happens to the old TV? They give it away or sell it for <£100.

The same thing applies to clothes, your laptop bag, mobile phone and more. People want things more quickly than they every did in the past. They are also very price savvy - I was down the gym this morning and was talking to a group of people who work in retail. The amount of customers they get in their stores who look at products, ask questions and even get them out the boxes....then go online to find a cheaper version. In turn, this then results in other online retailers driving down their prices, to the point where they are making no margin. The customer gets a better value product and, in turn, they view this as "throwaway". Everything cycles around again :(

It's quite rare to find someone who values quality and owning something long term.

Maybe B&O need to tap in to the likes of Lee, Ian Grace and others and utilise this pre-loved market more effectively. They would then allow a respectable trade-in from current kit. This would allow customers to get on the B&O bandwagon - and stay on the bandwagon - whilst upgrading their TV every 2-3 years, knowing that their current TV could be traded in against the new one.

Why do they need Lee and Ian? Primarily as UK dealers are now reluctant to take a trade-in. And, if they do take in something as a trade-in, the rates are quite low as they price them up on the basis the dealer might need to sell on to LifeStyle or MoreThan! It would be easier and wiser to work with Ian and Lee and shift some pre-loved stock through them, perhaps in association with B&O, and make this more official.

This enables B&O to put out the message that if you buy a B&O product, you can be safe in the knowledge that you'll get a reasonable trade-in against a new model at a later date. Something unheard of from any other brand.

That should be the new retail USP.

TripEnglish wrote:

They have been taught to pay a lot of lip service to quality, which confuses some people, but not to actually seek it out and pay the premium required to obtain it.

That presupposes that all of the price upper goes into higher quality. This isn't always the case.

Moxxey has it spot on with trades in, and reselling. As for making entry level products that might somehow cheapen the brand. AUDI, BMW, Mercedes and Aston Martin all now have entry level cars. It doesn't mean the S class or 7 series are any less good does it?