Sennheiser Ambeo, US$2500.  (P.S. Add the .1 subwoofer, you know you want it: SVS 3000 Micro, +US$900.)

I totally agree about B&O. I've been obsessed with them since the 90's but in the last 10 years they have just made so many questionable products.

I have products from them that I love. Beolab 18's. Beolab 4000's. Beolab 3's. Beolab a9 rev 2.

The moment was also a point for me where I knew they were going in the right direction. The sales staff couldn't explain to me why the $5000 (canadian) Moment was better than an iPad and a $150 media server.  And thats when it was new and nobody knew how bad the software was. That wood panel and colour wheel was not enough to make a $4500 difference.

When I purchased my A9 I noticed right away it was making popping and clicking sounds. I talked to the dealer, the techs at B&O I brought it in for repair FOUR times and they didn't even find the problem which is now well documented and still shipping on current A9's.  The dealer also said "I don't know if there is an issue or if he is a serial complainer" by mistakenly forwarding the wrong email to me. Turns out the problem was with the A9's overly tight screws, not me.

I purchased an A2 a few years ago because it was advertised as having a "20 hour battery".  Turns out that 20 hours is only under certain volumes which are so low there is no point. In reality when the sound is turned up past 80% the battery lasts a whooping 1.5 hours.  It has turned out to be totally useless for me and am embarrassment when I take it to the beach. I replaced it with a Marshal speaker which last 24 hours on high volume and costs half the price.

2 months ago I got the explore. It was literally a joke. Physically it was great... but the sound didn't even sound as good as my laptop. The return process was the most convoluted I have ever had to deal with.

I've also learned not to buy the Rev A products anymore.  The original A9 was missing features that they quickly added to rev b.  The Beosound 8 came with a non-removable iPhone doc and no streaming and then rev B quickly rectified both.

The Beosound Core is super overpriced and you can do a lot better with speaker systems that cost 1/5 the price and many more features.

The current product that shows the B&O cannot handle software or anything outside of speakers is the Halo.  Its a $1200 volume dial with 1 day of battery.  If anything it should have been a home control system (without having to spend another $1300 on the core to make it useful). The hardware looks great but it is such a missed opportunity. Now I hear plenty of people have the wheel failing after less than a year. 

This board has also been a real disappointment. As evident in this thread there are users like Millemissen who are just hostile to you if you don't like something B&O.  They plug their ears and scream "la la la I can't hear you, if you don't like the product get off the boards and stop being B&O". People like that fail to understand we are frustrated because we love B&O of old and want them to return to making great products.

Its not all bad though. I still love my B&O speakers, I think the Beolab 28's are rather compelling. It just I can't trust the software to work or have B&O support the product with software updates to no avail and finally drop support all together.

Im hoping for change though and either B&O starts supporting more standard software like Google home, Alexa, Apple Music etc and stops making junk products like the explore and Halo.

Millemissen wrote:

@MR 10Percent

I am not sure I can follow your math.

Where is the 3.0 speaker unit equivalent to the speakers in e.g. an Eclipse Sound Center - and what would that cost?

MM

I think your being somewhat pedantic and I was giving a hypothetical "vision" of what oit could look like.

Almando Surround Processor - say GBP1500 (Almando = Eur1000), use old beolabs for front as a cheap option (BL4000's??)

If you dont want or cant afford an Eclipse-grade Soundbar (a standalone is something like GBP5500 last time I looked?) which includes some complicated aluminium profiles and matching glass. There is probably a great deal of structure to enable the weight on the TV and rotate in 2 dimensions if attached to a floor stand.

The Stage at the lower end (no 5.1 external speaker capable version ) is approx. GBP1800. Im sure with of selective engineering, something half decent with WISA/PL 5.1 etc...something could be cobbled-up between GBP1800 to 5500? Lets say GBP3500. 

Now you understand the math, have your calculator to hand and can fathom the upgrade route Im postulating, then the economics and possible attraction to this route into B&O may be somewhat more appealing for many than the current GBP25k option from the Dealer?

No need to be harsh with me.

I am not trying to be pedantic - my question is very relevant.

An Almando processor and two (second hand) Beolabs for fronts is very far from being what B&O offers with the Sound Center.
In fact, if I was part of the team that has been and still is working on the advanced audio processor in the Sound Center and on creating matching speaker combinations (be it Eclipse or Harmony), I might feel offended. 

 When it comes to the overall concept of the BL90’s I am sure that you appreciate the effords behind that wonder.

Turning the flame down to offering a simple surround processor (as a black box), some already available Beolab speakers and a tv of your own choice is not in the DNA of B&O.

Apart from that, I am pretty sure that they could not make a living selling that kind of stuff - plenty of other similar solutions on the marked.

They will have to make and sell something extraordinaire! 

No wonder that the all-in-one package of an LG tv, the Stage and the craftmanship/the materials for the frame etc (aka BV Contour) is rather popular.

Most people who buy into B&O don’t want a box and external speaker solution - they want a nice designed all-in-one solution and are over all pleased just to have one remote on the table.

Apart from the few of us, people don’t want external speakers……..just like they are happy with a one-point audio system (like the BS Stage or A9).

B&O has to take this into account - both for their ‘lower end’ and for the more advanced and expandable tv solutions……an Eclipse or the Harmony must be able to do an excellent job, even if people never want to make use of the expandable options.

B&O never was for the average Joe - just think of the BV740/55 from earlier days…….heavy priced tv’s.

As for what you call ‘lower end’- the Stage - it still will be the question how many of their costumers really want all the options that a ‘half decent with WiSA/PL 5.1’ solution, would offer.

And I am pretty sure that the price for this would be relatively high……..assuming that B&O will not make too many compromises there.

What I rather see coming - and what might appeal to some of the costumers that want a bit more than just the Stage as is now - could be something based on the Mozart platform with the option of adding extra/surround speakers (also based on the Mozart platform).

However, that is only spectaculating/a hypothetical vision - and I am not sure that the math that they would have to do in Struer would make that seem profitable for the company.

MM

They have/had some hit & miss products... bitter sweet reminder when I see my 5 Beosound 3 of which only 1 still works flawless.

The reliability issue is by far the biggest problem in this class of equipment and unfortunately this boosts the old prejudices that Bang & Olufsen is overpriced design over substance. My wife sees all of our broken B&O stuff in the past as a proof for this. There's no argument to buy another B&O CD stereo system  when a super cheap (€ 300) CD player from e.g. Technics or Sony lives through while (not only one) B&O product dies in the meantime. That's a no go.

I'm still a fan of Bang & Olufsen and I love some of their products and would never sell them and yes, I still buy them. But they are like an Oldtimer which needs care and knowledge to keep it running. In this regard legacy support of Bang & Olufsen could be better (parts, software...)

BUT: Only bashing B&O is the wrong way. Give them a chance even when you're frustrated about a product.

They DO listen to us and they show it: Customer service got better, they do interviews, they opened up the HALO remote to support NL devices without the need of a BLI, re-using the NL-platform should be seen as a very positive step in the right direction! Which companies offer support for their legacy devices and which companies even "reawake" support for older devices like B&O did with the latest updates??

They need much better people at the top that don't do the usual business administration measures that proofed to be failures in so many companies before.
They need top management that would die for the brand.

Sustainability and longevity, the right to repair etc. is the new economic direction and B&O HAS the tools and the knowledge to thrive and shine!

So many examples. Look at a Beolink 7000: Educes a "Wow!" from people especially if they learn how old that thing is.

I'm happy with my B&O stuff but of course I don't buy 40 bluetooth speakers... ;-) The Essence remote (which suffers from reliability issues, too) is my current favorite and we use many them for different purposes. New kid on the B&O block will be HALO remote.


Dear B&O please keep going, listen to the market and your customers and do everything to live another 90 years to surprise this planet with wonderful marvels from the electronical and mechanical world. :-) Don't become a "me too" company!

Severed_Hand_of_Skywalker wrote:

I totally agree about B&O. I've been obsessed with them since the 90's but in the last 10 years they have just made so many questionable products.

I have products from them that I love. Beolab 18's. Beolab 4000's. Beolab 3's. Beolab a9 rev 2.

The moment was also a point for me where I knew they were going in the right direction. The sales staff couldn't explain to me why the $5000 (canadian) Moment was better than an iPad and a $150 media server.  And thats when it was new and nobody knew how bad the software was. That wood panel and colour wheel was not enough to make a $4500 difference.

When I purchased my A9 I noticed right away it was making popping and clicking sounds. I talked to the dealer, the techs at B&O I brought it in for repair FOUR times and they didn't even find the problem which is now well documented and still shipping on current A9's.  The dealer also said "I don't know if there is an issue or if he is a serial complainer" by mistakenly forwarding the wrong email to me. Turns out the problem was with the A9's overly tight screws, not me.

I purchased an A2 a few years ago because it was advertised as having a "20 hour battery".  Turns out that 20 hours is only under certain volumes which are so low there is no point. In reality when the sound is turned up past 80% the battery lasts a whooping 1.5 hours.  It has turned out to be totally useless for me and am embarrassment when I take it to the beach. I replaced it with a Marshal speaker which last 24 hours on high volume and costs half the price.

2 months ago I got the explore. It was literally a joke. Physically it was great... but the sound didn't even sound as good as my laptop. The return process was the most convoluted I have ever had to deal with.

I've also learned not to buy the Rev A products anymore.  The original A9 was missing features that they quickly added to rev b.  The Beosound 8 came with a non-removable iPhone doc and no streaming and then rev B quickly rectified both.

The Beosound Core is super overpriced and you can do a lot better with speaker systems that cost 1/5 the price and many more features.

The current product that shows the B&O cannot handle software or anything outside of speakers is the Halo.  Its a $1200 volume dial with 1 day of battery.  If anything it should have been a home control system (without having to spend another $1300 on the core to make it useful). The hardware looks great but it is such a missed opportunity. Now I hear plenty of people have the wheel failing after less than a year. 

This board has also been a real disappointment. As evident in this thread there are users like Millemissen who are just hostile to you if you don't like something B&O.  They plug their ears and scream "la la la I can't hear you, if you don't like the product get off the boards and stop being B&O". People like that fail to understand we are frustrated because we love B&O of old and want them to return to making great products.

Its not all bad though. I still love my B&O speakers, I think the Beolab 28's are rather compelling. It just I can't trust the software to work or have B&O support the product with software updates to no avail and finally drop support all together.

Im hoping for change though and either B&O starts supporting more standard software like Google home, Alexa, Apple Music etc and stops making junk products like the explore and Halo.

 

Everyone has different experiences, I bought an A2 and absolutely loved it. I think the sound quality is excellent, so I have actually ended up with 2 of them. So for you might it not be what you want, other people it is exactly what they want. I bought a 2nd hand Beosound 1 CD a while ago and didn't like the sound at all and sold it. Lots of people think its a great product. All because it doesn't fit into what I like or expect doesn't mean other people will have the same experience. Some love the Explore, you don't and that's fine but it doesn't mean that B&O manufactures rubbish or those products are rubbish. Its just your personal experience and needs.  

Razlaw wrote:

Technology changes rapidly. B and O is not the only company that has new technology outdate products. For instance, the early 2021 Tesla Model X and S do not support the latest technology and updates that the refreshed late 2021 and 2022 models S and X do. Same complaints as here on Tesla forum. How could I spend $100,000 on a car that is outdated six months later. Tesla has even officially named the early 2021 S and X, and earlier years “Legacy”. Software updates are now divided between Legacy models and new models. Imagine the complaints from the complainers there about a 6 month old $100,000 purchase already being considered a “Legacy” product.

I have such a "legacy" Tesla, this is the only car I ever had that is getting better over time. In three years ownership it received various new features, like a dashcam, side view, new music and video streaming services, suspension improvements to name a few.

Even though there are differences between the "old" (vertical screen) and newer models (horizontal screens). Even the very first Model S's are still receiving software updates and new features and could even get their infotainment computer updated to a newer chip, again something that is unheard of with legacy car makers.

On the B&O side, also unlike the rest of the industry, they have similar intentions with the Level. We will see how that turns out over time, but it's great that they are pursuing  this path.

BenSA wrote:

Everyone has different experiences, I bought an A2 and absolutely loved it. I think the sound quality is excellent, so I have actually ended up with 2 of them. So for you might it not be what you want, other people it is exactly what they want. I bought a 2nd hand Beosound 1 CD a while ago and didn't like the sound at all and sold it. Lots of people think its a great product. All because it doesn't fit into what I like or expect doesn't mean other people will have the same experience. Some love the Explore, you don't and that's fine but it doesn't mean that B&O manufactures rubbish or those products are rubbish. Its just your personal experience and needs.  

 

The A2 sounds great I agree. My problem is how they fully advertised it as "20 something battery" and when you take it home its actually 1.5 in real world use. Thats totally creative and misleading advertising. Also, right after the A2 came out they quickly replaced it with one that was water resistant. Burned again by B&O rev 1 product.

And sorry if anyone finds the sound of the explore acceptable they are just completely fanboy B&O. Any blind sound test and it would fail miserably.  You should really try the explore against the any bluetooth speaker that costs half the amount, then you'll understand how people just want to like it because it looks nice and has the logo on it.

And be careful before you buy the Halo. There is a thread here about them already having mechanical problems in less than a year and right out of the box.

Mikipidia wrote:

Explore is tough as nails and I am very curious which actual laptop sounds better?! I haven’t come accross one yet and I’ve rently been laptop shopping.

Try the latest MacBook Pro 14 or 16 inch. These have the best speakers of any laptop you can find on the market with a very big margin.