schatzoy wrote:

The worst thing that can happen to a product and a person alike is indifference...

... which was one of my points and the reason I gave the thread a good prod with a pointed stick.

For reasons of balance and impartiality I will highlight that generally people hit the review sites to vent if they're unhappy and cannot find a resolution to their issues.  The people who are completely happy, in contrast, just get on and enjoy their products.

Looking at reviews on Trustpilot they get 3.5 out of 5 overall.  This ranks as 'Average' and is on the whole a place where people seem to be venting about poor customer service when experienced.

I suppose it's a chicken and egg thing and you really cannot win.  Make cheaply constructed disposable products which sell by the pallet-load, then get a deluge of people complaining when they go wrong.  In that case, you need a pretty slick operation when it comes to customer support and returns.  They do not have this.

Or, build products properly, be forced to charge a much higher price, and sell a lot less of them....

No doubt the Moment has left quite a few customers with long lasting scars.

Leaving that behind, and the Android OS BVs, is a good thing thankfully but I'm far less convinced than some here that "B&O is knocking it out of the park now" or that "their software prowess has become really good".  Restoring NL after 18months is great, but hardly a win just getting back to where they were!

I dont actually mind that they release lots of lower end BT / wireless / portable speakers - whether or not it fits in with your view of what hifi is, thats been the big growing sector of the market, and it would have been silly of them to ignore it. And they've done relatively well out of those types of products.

The bigger question for me relates to their mid and higher end product line up. The yearly 10% price rises (not just the recent ones, which I think we all see the reasons for) will soon leave (if you allow some reasonable guesswork) their mid / high end products out of reach or just not sensible, so expensive have they become.

Outside of my 2 main rooms I have a BS2 and A9 MK2 - I was happy enough to pay 3000GBP for the pair back in 2015, and early 2017, but now the pair would be 4600 GBP....just too much for supplementary occasional speakers for other rooms.

Coming back to the Moment, once I sold mine, I had to look elsewhere for the music experience I wanted - a good streaming and vinyl experience. Roon (Nucleus server) and Linn got my money, via an incredibly good streamer / DAC and LP12 vinyl player.  For my main lounge thats 7000GBP that Linn got - money that I'd have been happy to give B&O if they had nicely designed products with broadly the same functionality. Their loss, not mine. A Core is a sub standard offering for some of those with 50s / 90s (and I dare say 28s now).

Maybe B&O may have enough market knowledge to regard me as a niche (not a Deezer user, wanting a more involving music experience, not wanting to start predetermined music from a Halo), and happy to leave me to go elsewhere as I did.  

But with the user experience in some cases being narrow, their designs will have be incredibly attractive to keep me - otherwise I'll stick with my 50s (great product), and when it comes to my BVs, replace them with something else when the time comes.  

And their designs have been hit and miss, and nothing that will be regarded as classic since the A9.  Yes the Level is very nice, but the rest have been poor (Balance? Emerge? Eclipse? Edge?)

So no, I dont think its all disposable crap they produce - much of it is still very nice. But with the accumulation of price rises, the absence of knockout designs and still limited music functionality makes the whole proposition hard to rationalise. 

Its very much on the cards that the company will need to go back to investors for a further cash injection in a few years - a prospect that some of the staunch defendants here seemingly cant foresee. 

seethroughyou wrote:

Chris wrote:

 

I recognize myself in the previous words.

 

One month ago my Jukebox finally give up (again) and I'm not planning to replace it for a third time.

 

This is the worst buy I did from this company and I'm not planning to buy further goods from them. I was one of the first Moment buyers and helped B&O Denmark endlessly to get this audio component working as it should. Never get any thank you or note to thank me from them.

 

I was used as a beta tester... Bye Bye, B&O.

 

 

"Believe nothing you read and only half of what you see, let your ears tell you the truth."

 

 

 

 

B&O have lost all interest in the Moment using the excuse EOL. It went EOL because they lost interest in fixing the problems of their own making/design.

 

 

Like you, I haven’t bought anything since and have no intention. I love B&O of the past and their speakers but it’s difficult to be fan when you respect only one line of product in their catalogue. I have had a great deal of affection in the past for the brand but like many this is being eroded. Lack of long-term servicing, software issues, poor parts and reliability, non-existent customer service, obsession over form over function…Aside from their speakers, I can’t but help conclude that B&O is increasingly the purveyor of disposable hifi. As I age, I’ve realised I want more. Look at the old Beogram CD players and record players - the build quality, use of discrete components, the fit and finish of the PCBs, etc… No more! It’s now cheap and nasty parts, shoddy build, incomplete ideas and after a few years you are supposed to bin it when it dies prematurely.

Razlaw wrote:

 

Technology changes rapidly. B and O is not the only company that has new technology outdate products. For instance, the early 2021 Tesla Model X and S do not support the latest technology and updates that the refreshed late 2021 and 2022 models S and X do. Same complaints as here on Tesla forum. How could I spend $100,000 on a car that is outdated six months later. Tesla has even officially named the early 2021 S and X, and earlier years “Legacy”. Software updates are now divided between Legacy models and new models. Imagine the complaints from the complainers there about a 6 month old $100,000 purchase already being considered a “Legacy” product.

... which is the reason I wouldn't even contemplate buying a Tesla.

Other companies far bigger and more glamorous than B&O acting like this doesn't exactly make it okay..  It will ultimately bite them.

Initially I was spitting feathers when Tesla went CCS: customers had to fork out an additional sum for the kit and without it the Supercharger network looked small. But the company sent an email saying their "CCS Charging Upgrade was available" and would I like to book an appointment via the app.

There are other examples of the tech moving and Tesla allowing owners to move with it. They updated the internal MCU a few years back and, because my Model S has an earlier, Intel Atom-based board, the firmware is stuck with 2020 as a build date. This is exactly like my BeoSystem which says 2017, or my Horizon which is stuck at 2019 with none of the apps working. We all know these are dead ends.

But the car, which is older and more complicated, is not. The tech can still be upgraded for a fee and I suspect this is actually what keeps them from being bitten.

I do still like B&O speakers, regardless of firmware date 🙂

9 LEE wrote:

... which is the reason I wouldn't even contemplate buying a Tesla.

Other companies far bigger and more glamorous than B&O acting like this doesn't exactly make it okay.. It will ultimately bite them.

Also perhaps why the Tesla example isn't exactly right here.

The Moment stopped doing all is was supposed to do or in fact did.

A 2021 Tesla hasn't had promised functionality removed (?) or sopped doing some things it did at launch?

The B&O parallel would be the 22 Tesla having park assist removed (whilst maintained on the 21 model) and then getting it back 18 months later......think Network Link.

Razlaw wrote:

9 LEE wrote:

 

... which is the reason I wouldn't even contemplate buying a Tesla.

 

Other companies far bigger and more glamorous than B&O acting like this doesn't exactly make it okay.. It will ultimately bite them.

 

 

Perhaps, perhaps not. For right now I am thrilled with my 2021 Tesla and eagerly awaiting delivery of my 2022 Tesla. My gasoline powered car seems like an antique relic now. Some people like change and progress. Some don’t. Each to their own.

 

And those people with 2021 Legacy Teslas are still getting updates and improvements regularly.

 

Is there any other car manufacturer who constantly provides new features and new interface functions to existing cars? Pretty hard to update knobs and dials which is why the answer to that question is no.

9 LEE wrote:

... which is the reason I wouldn't even contemplate buying a Tesla.

Off-topic but i could not resist. 

1. The future is hydrogen combustion. That is if our respective Governments actually allow us to have personal chariots.

2. We cannot extract enough Rare Earths to power a green world using wind, electricity, and motors etc.. PERIOD

3. There would need to be massive Worldwide copper extraction to place the distribution system to charge EVs at most homes. I'll bet a few more % in EV growth and the whole lot will collapse without the infrastructure

4. EV Lithium batteries currently last 7 years before the whole vehicle is a write-off. some serious design and recycling changes will have to happen soon.

5. Hydrogen does not need Rare Earths. Combust in modified Internal combustion Engine

6. Distribution systems are all in place. The transport/storage tankers (or in-situ H2 crackers) in fill stations is probably a lot easier to do than copper EV charging.

...so back to Tesla. They are the VHS video format when Betamax should rule and some time off large capacity Tb capacity solid state drives.

Look what Tesla owner done🤬🤣.