Christian Christensen wrote:

Yachmed

One year later, is the beogram till working perfect ?

I have 3 piece of 1200 with this problem , exactly as dillen described, just cleaning and oiling the motor works only for a couple of days.

DIllen,l  volontair if you have some new pieces to try.

Christian 

The problem with the bearings is, as Martin has mentioned, the pores in the bearing clogs up and are nearly impossible to clean. The problem is that the bearing needs oil deposit "holes" it also has to have a dimension (inner D) that leaves space for the oil. Meaning: If the shaft is 2.8 mm, the bearing has to have an inner D between 2,82 and 2.84. Menahem is on the right track with using 1000 and 2000 grain wet sanding paper, but the grains of a 2000 paper are too fine to leave deposit grooves without deposit grooves or holes, the oil will slowly be pressed out of the bearing. I use a 220 grain paper first, cleaning the bearing with acetone before starting. I rotate the 220 paper a few times until the bearing is shiny and clean, then clean the bearing with acetone and then rotate 400 grain paper until the bearing fits lightly over the shaft without oil, adding oil you will feel the bearing fitting a little harder over the shaft. The bearing will now have space for the oil to work and from the 220 grain paper the resting grooves for oil deposit. I use a multi grade synthetic  motor oil for lubricating.

I know nothing about oils.
What is a multigrade syntetic  moto oil ?
Something I can buy in a gas station ? 

Dave Farr wrote:

Can you just not use 'liquid bearings' oil? Cheap and available via the Internet and specially made for bearings and it doesn't dry out.

Dave.

Liquid bearings is a synthetic oil, but very thin (low viscosity) and is very good  for everything else in the BGs, but the AC motor is running fast and need a little "thicker" oil. synthetic oils has longer stand times and are more penetrating than petroleum based oils. In the slower running DC motors Liquid Bearings will do.

I use the multi grade oil for the platter bearing too,

A 20/50 synthetic motor oil can be obtained at any gas station.

We are working with self lubricating bearings made in the 60s, in the 1960s the sintered bronze bushing production process began to become more sophisticated, cheaper and more popular with producers, with newer and better materials this has continued into the 70s and early 80s. A sintered bronze bushing is bronze with up to 25% holes in it, these holes gets filled with oil in a vacuum process.In the 70s and until today the self lubricating plastics took over a great part of this market.

Oils evaporate or "dries" out, so after 40-50 years there is nothing left in a bushing which means that we will have to find a way to get some lubrication in there, or change the bushing with a new one. If these decks was produced today there would have been a whole lot of more plastics in them.

Incorrectly relied to another thread so have copied and pasted....

I'm back. Some new info and some new requests!

the 1203: it all got fixed. Turned out the cable from the arm had been replaced with one that had stiffened up over time! New cables and a few tweaks and she's good to go. That was about a year a go and a new problem has come up... It's taking ages to pick the arm up. After the first play it takes less time. Maybe the cable again? Going to take it to the chap who fixed it for me last time. Bit worried it's finally shot though as the suspension is very baggy and its sitting a bit low in the case 

the 1200: still nothing but given it to a friend who is a good tinkerer, hopefully he can fix. 

Since I first posted in this thread I've invested a bit more into my hifi system and when the 1203 works it plays like a dream through my A&R A60, and they match each other beautifully aesthetically. I'd love to find someone who can reliably service these decks so one of them will last me for a while. If anyone has suggestions or recommendations for someone UK based that would be very much appreciated. There is some chap on eBay offering repairs but for £200 a deck. I don't mind paying but that's quite a bit. 

Hope me someone here can help. Again. 

Chris

200 Quid is not a lot at all, if the job is done right.

You cannot measure a vintage repair in terms of currency alone. You have to measure its value - what do you get for that cash outlay?

It is the very rare technician whose work is of such a high standard, that his repairs are indistinguishable from the factory original.

When a competent technician has to start retracing the work of the sloppy tech who "had a go" at the machine before him, that cost has to be figured into the whole repair.

I have refused many projects because I know what is involved in retracing a previous tech's sub-standard work. 

Electronic repairs are like sex - once the covers are off, your work is there for all to see - you can't hide anything.

Get real-life references from previous customers, and if the tech is praised for his high standard of work, don't ask about the price.

There are a handful of good UK B&O techs on this forum.

Why don't you post a new thread with a Subject - Looking for BeoGram tech in the UK ?

Menahem Yachad

Israel

Hi Menahem,

Thanks for the reply. If £200 is the going rate then maybe I will have to pay it but was hoping for a little less as old equipment like this can be a money pit, I've already spent over £100 on it mostly on a chap who claimed to be a B&O expert. Will make a post as suggested and see who replies, I've also mailed everyone mentioned in similar posts. 

Thanks,

Chris. 

Hi everybody,

I'm COMPLETELY new to all of this.  I've wanted a turntable for a while now and was deciding between vintage and new, until I saw the beograms and thought--wow, that's just the most beautiful turntable I've seen.  I just love that B&O aesthetic and even though some of the modern ones are more advanced, they don't come anywhere near this beauty in terms of their looks.

So I looked at ebay--I could find a few at around 150 GBP, allegedly working, but who knows how well?  And who knows how good the stylus is after all these years?  And then I saw a Beogram 1200 in a very good cosmetic condition but labelled as "for parts only," without a stylus.  It was offered at 100 GBP, which was obviously a joke, so I offered 30 GBP and the seller agreed.

I figured--maybe it will be a simple fault, like a shot belt, in which case it will be an easy win and then I can buy new-ish stylus online for about 170 and have myself an awesome-looking deck with a new stylus at more or less the same price as the other ones.

Or it will be a more complicated problem, so it can become a little project.

Worst case scenario, I'll mess it up and have wasted 30 GBP--worse things have happened.

So I bought the damaged Beogram 1200 and dived in a little last night.  When plugged in, it makes a faint buzzing sound and that's about it.  Nothing moves.  The motor spindle get a little warm after a while (I think, I never plugged it in for more than 2 minutes).  The gear wheel mechanism seems to be working pretty well when moved by hand, all of the arms are doing pretty well, but I guess they should still be lubricated.  Plus--who knows how they actually do in practice because the damn thing won't actually turn on.

I'm going to buy a voltage checker tomorrow, but I don't suspect that will be a problem, because the motor is definitely buzzing a little, suggesting at least presence of current.  Having read this excellent thread throughout, and some others here and there, it seems to me that a strip-down of the motor is in order.  I've never however done anything more electrical than changing a lightbulb and plug in my laptop, so, I'm a bit apprehensive about stripping down the motor (I'm pretty sure I learned about motors in physics classes way back, but, boy, it's been a while).  

So--do you know of any video or good article here on how to clean motors?  I haven't found any.  Or are any of you in London and able to give me a hand at a fair price?

Like I said, I mostly see this as a "let's see if I can fix it" project.  If I succeed, I'll be happy, if I don't, I'll buy a functioning one.

Oh, also, I removed the record guide in order to lift up the plate and check out the belt (it seemed fine but I bought one anyway).  But now I can't seem to be able to put the record guide back in.  It seems there is a little tiny spring within the plastic inner shell of the record guide that moves freely and could perhaps be blocking it as I try to fit it back on the spindle.  I have a feeling there's a trick to this that I don't know.  Any ideas?

I'm really grateful for all of your (anxiously anticipated) help.  Sorry I'm just another newb trying to learn from the gods.

Thank you!

AFAIAC, the 1200/3000 series is one of the best radial TT's made, built like a tank, and easily maintainable, as long as you don't try to cut corners, or be lazy.

You already perceived the most important fact about these "allegedly working, but who knows how well".

None of these TT's, no matter how the seller may describe them in glowing lexicon, is working properly. All need work, and I'll explain why.

1. The AC motors are all, generally, in excellent shape, and very few require disassembly.

However, in order to work properly, they are entirely dependent on the quality of voltage which reaches them from the AC outlet.

There is one component which literally "gums up" the works. That is the AC voltage selector switch. EVERY ONE requires complete disassembly and cleaning - Be careful - there is a tiny spring and ball-bearing which can get lost easily.

I use Brasso wadding to wipe off all the oxidation and hard grease, followed by Kontakt 60. After the cleaning, the motor works perfectly.

2.  The Idler wheel's rubber is completely hard, and useless for maintaining any semblance of friction against the brass pulley cone (on the motor shaft). That has to be re-rubbered. For many years, I have been sending all mine to Terry's Rubber Rollers in the USA. He does an EXCELLENT job.

Without taking care of the above 2 issues, you have absolutely no hope of ever having a perfectly-functional machine, no matter what the seller claims.

The buzzing you hear, is NOT the motor. It is the solenoid vibrating at high frequency, because the pusher unit (in a closed plastic case under the platter) is not aligned correctly. The alignment is controlled by

1. A little black plastic tab, which may be missing or deformed. Rudy Schaf (Beolover) in the USA, is making replacements for these.

2. The contact switch underneath the LIFT button. You need to rotate the actual switch slightly on its axle, until it makes an exact and positive contact when you press the LIFT button.

The machine must be turned upside-down, and supported on wooden blocks to prevent damage to the tonearm.

In the rotating axle's white shaft under the platter, there is a small black pin - if it is not EXACTLY in the centre of the shaft, the axle will knock, and you'll have speed problems.

A few drops of bearing oil into the shaft of the up/down control for the tonearm, is advised.

So there you go.

You already have a top unit.

Bite the bullet, do the work as I've described, and you won't look back.

If it's more than you can manage, there are a couple of good UK techs - start with Nick (Solderon)

Menahem

Hi Menahem,

Thank you so much for your great message.  I really appreciate your help.

I do, however have a bunch of more questions... 

1. The voltage selector--how can I disassemble it?  It's a small switch with a bunch of wires coming out of it on one side, and the other side having presumably some electronics hidden under a black plastic selector wheel that can be switched between 110V and 210V.  Do you mean I'm supposed to remove the black plastic round switch and clean what's underneath it?  If so, how do I do it?  I couldn't figure out how to remove it from the brown tab that it sits on.

2. I agree re the idler wheel, but kind of first want to get the motor to spin and then worry about the wheel (which it seems to me doesn't quite maintain contact well with the spindle so that will have to be fixed (probably lubed).

3. Re the buzzing.  Can you be a little more specific about the little black plastic tab?  I couldn't find it (which may well be because it's missing!) but when I looked at other photos of the disassembled turntable that other people posted online, I saw no difference between mine and theirs, so I don't quite know where to look for this black plastic tab.

4. The contact switch--as far as I can tell, it's not an electrical component and instead is purely mechanical.  The suppression of the black lift button moves a metallic arm, which moves another arm.  As far as I can tell, it makes contact quite while and moves the arm in its full range of motion.  Am I missing something here?  Is it in fact an electrical switch?  

5. I haven't yet looked at the rotating axle, but I will tonight.

Sorry I'm basically asking you to help me more on the stuff you've already said.  It's not that I did not try to fix it--I spent at least 2 hours last night tinkering with the turntable and trying to find what you're getting at--I just haven't been successful!

Thanks so much again,

Honza