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BeoVision Avant 85 Picture Defect

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Bubbza
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Bubbza posted on Thu, Mar 16 2017 9:51 PM

Hi

In the winter of 2016 I bought a Beovision Avant 85 (and Beolab 5 and 18) from B&O retailer in Sweden. Since then I discovered that the entire screen has vertical stripes which are most visable during camera panoramic movement or when there is one bright colour on the screen or parts of it (see attachment) I have tried with different sources and with adjusting the settings but nothing has worked. 

In my opinion the screen must be defected. I have contacted B&O HQ in Denmark but they refuse to help!! They give the following response:

Thank you for your e-mail regarding your BeoVision Avant 85  - we do apologize for this rather late reply.
 
Our technical team and our television quality expert have investigated the matter and examined the images provided and based on the information available the conclusion is that the screen of your BeoVision Avant 85, is within specifications.
 
Please allow us to elaborate further on this conclusion as well as explaining some of our technology choices made for this TV model.
 
The LCD module used in BeoVision Avant 85 is of the direct-LED backlight type with an array of many LEDs positioned behind the LCD screen. These LEDs can be controlled in small groups, making it possible to reduce backlight intensity locally, depending on scene content. This technique is called local dimming and it improves the local picture contrast drastically, while reducing the energy consumption of the TV significantly for the majority of TV material. A minor drawback of this technique is that it can be more difficult to achieve a fully even uniformity in bright scenes.
 
LCD modules with edge-LED backlight type (such as in the BeoVision Avant 55) do not have this minor drawback, but they do not benefit in the same way from the better dynamic contrast and the reduced energy consumption.
We would like to point out that the advantages and disadvantages of edge-LED and direct-LED type backlight systems are well known among the different TV set makers in the industry and you will see that different TV set makers have made different technology choices.

Bang & Olufsen have decided to opt for the direct-LED backlight type with local dimming for our largest screen size (75/85") flagship product, because this in our opinion gives the best trade-off between advantages and disadvantages for our customers.

We hope that this has helped to explain the observations you have made.

Has anyone experienced the same problem with the Avant 75 or 85 or with any other direct led TV? Is it true what they are saying? Are there no reasonable limitations on how much picture defects one can accept? Personally I think Bang and Olufsens response in comparison to the a 25 000 euro price is unacceptable.

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Michael
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Michael replied on Thu, Mar 16 2017 10:00 PM
I believe what they say is correct. The screen is made for movies and for that the direct backlit dimmabel zone:leds are fantastic. However on your example they shine very vividly.

I think it might look exaggerated on camera (on my 55" Avant the clouding can be seen easier through camera than in real life!).

What I see is brightly lit leds that shines through. I guess the plastic dispersion sheet could have been made thicker in the panel so the leds would blur more but then the local dimming would be lost and light would be harder to send through. So it's a valid compromise.

It's visible during certain scenes and as in your example in a dark scene where the Tv doesn't know exactly how dark to present the scene.

It's an expensive tv but it is also 85"! It's expensive to produce too. And it's a marvel in many ways. The only better ways to hide this is either edge lit or a universal one zone led. Then it would be less visible but you would lack the local dimming.

Otherwise wait for OLED or go back to plasma (please don't go backwards Smile). The old BV 103 looks horribly grey and while awesome I find it very much dated. This screen you have is much better.

So, good and bad. But probably your screen is ok.
jowus
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jowus replied on Fri, Mar 17 2017 2:45 AM
This TV has Warranty on it, right? Exchange it! For that Amount of money, it's should be flawless! C'mon now!
Rob.B
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Rob.B replied on Fri, Mar 17 2017 4:02 AM

its a pretty poor response from B&O. If they cant provide a TV with an adequate panel for its size, then hold off until its perfect.

Michael
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Rob.B:

its a pretty poor response from B&O. If they cant provide a TV with an adequate panel for its size, then hold off until its perfect.

I think it is an excellent answer and they are right as well. The panel they sourced is the best kind as long as you don't go for oled. The benefits of direct led with local dimming is by far exceeding the issues. The picture the thread starter supplies is both blurry and not really good in any way.

 

It shows a blueish picture with refletions above and a lot of shake/movement. I don't really know what I am looking.. But It seems like a Windows media player paused to what appears to be the beginning of a disney movie or something, with the blue before the castle. Hard to say. But from that picture it is completely impossible to see anything..

By the way, here is a good video about the different lighting techniques: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-shLhgRn4U 

Michael
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Here is another example, on the BV7-55" which many owners still think is the best TV ever produced by B&O, mostly because of this direct led technology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHfGzj9r6_E

Aussie Michael
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Rob.B:

its a pretty poor response from B&O. If they cant provide a TV with an adequate panel for its size, then hold off until its perfect.

I agree with you Rob. It's unacceptable. I don't care from a technical perspective. I care from the person that paid for it.

B&O sees to forget it's their customers that pay THEIR wages

I don't know why people don't get that lol.
9 LEE
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9 LEE replied on Sat, Mar 18 2017 11:11 AM

I'm sorry, but everyone saying this is 'normal' is talking rubbish.  You have a faulty panel.  It should be replaced under warranty.

I've seen this not once, but twice on 75" versions.  Both customers got that email, both customers insisted it was a panel fault, and after kicking up a fuss both customers had them replaced under warranty.

Samsung made the panels, and if they're faulty surely the cost of replacement is down to them?  

The worst instances of the vertical lines can usually be seen against a green background, such as a football match.  The lines are there permanently - they don't move with the image.  They then disappear when the screen is predominantly white or grey (from memory).

You have bought an extremely expensive TV, and also spent a lot of money on speakers. Do not accept something you are unhappy with. You have paid enough to have that right.

Lee

Peter
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Peter replied on Sat, Mar 18 2017 11:33 AM

Awful response from B&O - I was about to buy a new TV - it now will not be a B&O one.

Peter

Couchman
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Couchman replied on Sat, Mar 18 2017 12:02 PM

Hi Bubbza,

I have the same problem, too (it is called "banding").

I bought my 85" Avant also in december 2016 and I got the same technical response. I`m sure that B&O knows this backlight problem, but they take no care on it.

The proposal from B&O was that I can choose a new 85" (maybe the backlight is better) or I go back to a 75" Avant, because the 75" version should`t have this issue.

I told my dealer I would try it with a new 85", but I want to see it at the shop before installing at home. If it has the same problem I will step back from buying.

My opinion is that it is a LCD panel problem and it is a lack of the 85" Avant  that can`t be solved 100%. ....  love it or leave it. 

I will not accept this lack, because I also payed 25k Euro for this TV.

9 LEE
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9 LEE replied on Sat, Mar 18 2017 1:18 PM

The 75 certainly does have this issue...

In both of the cases I've seen the new panel has cleared up the dark lines by around 85-95% (but not completely).  

I personally have an Avant 75 and I'm absolutely delighted with it.  I never thought I could match the 7-55 it replaced, but showing a 4k Blu-Ray it does.

Lee

KMA
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KMA replied on Sat, Mar 18 2017 1:26 PM
9 LEE:

I'm sorry, but everyone saying this is 'normal' is talking rubbish. You have a faulty panel. It should be replaced under warranty.

I've seen this not once, but twice on 75" versions. Both customers got that email, both customers insisted it was a panel fault, and after kicking up a fuss both customers had them replaced under warranty.

Samsung made the panels, and if they're faulty surely the cost of replacement is down to them?

The worst instances of the vertical lines can usually be seen against a green background, such as a football match. The lines are there permanently - they don't move with the image. They then disappear when the screen is predominantly white or grey (from memory).

You have bought an extremely expensive TV, and also spent a lot of money on speakers. Do not accept something you are unhappy with. You have paid enough to have that right.

Lee

I agree.

In the industry, panels are graded by manufacturers from A+ to B- (if I recall correctly) – there are a few quality variations within the same panel model. B&O is known to demand & buy the absolute best panels, but obviously they don't always get them.

Is the panel in an Avant bought in December 2016 still supplied by Samsung? With the never BeoVisions (BV14, Horizon, and at least Avant NG) B&O has switched to panels from TP Vision / Philips. It's no secret that these panels are rated inferior to their Samsung counterparts in the industry.

There was a refresh in the Avant lineup between the original version and the NG version. I wonder if they changed the panel supplier at that time? On a timeline, December 2016 falls into the "Re-instated" period, before Avant NG.

I hope the matter gets resolved.

KMA

B&O product history since 1991: Ridiculously long to list in a signature.

Couchman
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I own a Avant 85" NG with Android and my dealer told me it is a Samsung panel. What is correct?

BeoGreg
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BeoGreg replied on Sun, Mar 19 2017 11:00 AM
Warning sign : be careful, you are buying a 25.000 € tv that will have vertical lines when watching football and/or golf best watch surf or theater scenes.

Depending on what you are watching, the picture will be the best in the world (or the worst). That's our choice for an entry level product and we assume it and don't ask Beocare if you desagree.
Bubbza
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Bubbza replied on Sun, Mar 19 2017 9:17 PM

Thanks for all your answers and support! I really appreciate it!

Pursuant to your advice, I am currenly pushing back at B&O, with the support of the B&O dealers in Stockholm. I will keep you posted on the progress.

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