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Beocord 2000 Reel to Reel, Mexico

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Søren Mexico
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Søren Mexico Posted: Tue, Jul 29 2014 7:58 AM

Tamtapir animated me to start on my BC 2000, so here goes. I am not as brave as D""ck, I have had some bad experiences with connecting used devices without checking the inside first, furthermore the main cable looked very bad with the insulation coming off in places, and as it is a little special, I dont have another to connect the BC.

First thing I took off the top covers, knobs come off easily, some of them has a screw, the other ones are just pull off.

Not too much dirt in there

Then the bottom cover, found the drawing, a loose label and some old foam inside

I could now see the PCBs and the way they did it then, simple but effective

Now look at the PCB connections, after more than 50 years ( maybe 60, I´m not sure about the build year), they are dirty, but as I see it, still with connection

Here a PCB out, as you see connections are there, but all around dirty.

Now I got a bit ahead of myself, wanted to see what Deoxit could really do, soaked the PCB connections with Deoxit, waited 5 min. and cleaned 2 tracks with a cotton stick, nice and clean without abrasives. That will also happen to your switches when you clean them this way.

Here the cotton stick, after cleaning one track.

All clean after 15 min. soaking

I now numbered all the PCBs as I´m going to treat all of them the same way. Then I took off the wood frame, 4 nuts and 2 screws from below. Here the tone heads, dirty but not worn. Red arrow is a tape guide, it had a kind of plastic cover (plastic tube), that one came off in 1000 pieces when i touched it just a little.

Here the erase head, not worn, but dirty. one guide, arrow, very dirty, but not worn, I found another one worn, amazing what a tape can do to chromed steel, I will grin/polish that one, hoping its only the chrome, and not through to steel.

Here one of the PCBs, they all look good, no heat coloration, and the caps looks good too.

All the belts are loose, the one for the counter broken, I hope Martin has a set of belts, if not, I have to shorten and glue or invent something, there is also a problem with felt guides and a felt clutch for play, but after cleaning it all I will come back with more. Its now 02:00 am, going to bed. Sweet dreams to all of you.

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Ben_S
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Ben_S replied on Tue, Jul 29 2014 4:23 PM

Great thread Soren, looking forward to hearing all about it!

Søren Mexico
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Got this one from Jeff in another thread.

Søren,

 

Since you are working on your reel to reel can you tell me why they are SO expensive to repair?

 

I know this is not a workbench forum and we could move it there, but I thought you might shed some light on this.

 

I mean I had both my Beocord 8004 and 9000 repaired and it wasn’t too bad for either.

 

But with a reel to reel basically other than Soundsmiths NO one would touch it let alone fix mine, but they provided estimates from $800 to $4,000. You got that last number right, I have 3 estimates for $4,000.

 

My Tandberg is in for repair and it is being done by a nice chap who works on it daily in-between the paying jobs, but I have no idea what the bill will be when it’s done.

 

I mean my deck worked when I took it in, the motor and heads are fine (verified) but it needed a good contact cleaning, lubrication, a dozen solders repaired, and about 20 capacitors replaced.

 

Jeff

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Søren Mexico
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Søren Mexico:

Søren,

 

Since you are working on your reel to reel can you tell me why they are SO expensive to repair?

 

I know this is not a workbench forum and we could move it there, but I thought you might shed some light on this.

 

I mean I had both my Beocord 8004 and 9000 repaired and it wasn’t too bad for either.

 

But with a reel to reel basically other than Soundsmiths NO one would touch it let alone fix mine, but they provided estimates from $800 to $4,000. You got that last number right, I have 3 estimates for $4,000.

 

My Tandberg is in for repair and it is being done by a nice chap who works on it daily in-between the paying jobs, but I have no idea what the bill will be when it’s done.

 

I mean my deck worked when I took it in, the motor and heads are fine (verified) but it needed a good contact cleaning, lubrication, a dozen solders repaired, and about 20 capacitors replaced.

 

Jeff

It is my first Reel to Reel, so I am not the right person to ask, I used 4 hours just to take mine apart. When opening an item, I did not work with before, I go very slow and check everything before loosening a screw or disconnecting anything, I also take a lot of pics and make notes where pics are not enough (on the famous BM 4400, I had 10 letter size (A4) pages). But for cleaning, lubricating and changing some caps on a BC 2000 RtoR I would use about 10 hours, (with the small experience I have now) if it is an unknown device the double.

Professional workshops has an overhead and to adjust any tape recording device you will need some tools (gauges) and instruments, only suitable for this.  If a workshop only repair an RtoR once a year they will calculate the tool and instrument cost (or part of it) into the end price, then they will have to have a repairman who knows at least something about it, and as these items only shows up maybe once a year it is like starting all over again every time. And thats where the money comes together, overhead, salary, tools and third part works (machining and forming parts, most electronics do not have a mech. shop like I do)

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Wed, Jul 30 2014 12:25 AM

Thanks Søren, I understand.

 

I did the best that I could with my Tandberg replacing lamps, cleaning tape heads and tape path, and providing a general lubrication. So my deck was in reasonable good shape mechanically when it went it. Motor and heads are good and it has no belts.

 

Long story made short, this shop did two pieces for me, a VCR and a Sony D6C Walkman, both well done and reasonable. ($40 & $90.)

 

So I took them my Tandberg reel-to-reel. Like virtually everyone I approached this shop didn’t want this job, but let me talk to a tech, whom I managed to “charm” into looking at it, but that was all he promised to do, look at it. As such, no estimate, and that is what worries me now.

 

Intimidated at first, the Tandberg “grew” on him. This guy doesn’t get to interact with people too much, so he really lit up when he found a customer with passion for the item being repaired.

 

Now he delights with everything he finds wrong and is VERY determined to tell me the details of each find and its solution.

 

I like this and I now see that with the learning curve behind him he will not quite until my Tandberg is perfect.

 

It is not a question of you being the “wrong man” to ask, as there is no “right” man. My tech is fitting this repair in-between his “real” work which pays the bills. So what he charges is entirely up to him.

 

I was just hoping for a (frankly) wild, yet educated guess what someone would charge to clean all the contacts, sliders, pots, and most importantly the connections between the deck and the circuit board. Re-solder a dozen solder points and replace about 20 capacitors (@75¢ each.)

 

It all comes down to the tech likes me and my Tandberg, his boss has NO idea how much time he has in on this, so the charge can literally be anything.

 

I guess I’ll know when the deck is done and I have the invoice in front of me.

 

Jeff

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tamtapir
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tamtapir replied on Wed, Jul 30 2014 9:05 AM

Søren Mexico:

. Its now 02:00 am, going to bed.

 

Very good, Sören!

chartz
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chartz replied on Wed, Jul 30 2014 9:21 AM

Søren, this is a nice addition to any B&O collector! Of course I want one for my Beolab 5000 (almost complete, I might have found a pair of good condition cubes for very little outlay in the local ads Whistle).

But then, you should perhaps look at the inside of a ReVox of the same era, you'd be astounded at the sheer simplicity of the mechanics: no silly clutches, no idler wheels in sight. Golden tracks, no oxydation. A bit like the mighty (for me) Beocord 5000 of 1976! 

Jacques

Søren Mexico
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chartz:
But then, you should perhaps look at the inside of a ReVox of the same era, you'd be astounded at the sheer simplicity of the mechanics: no silly clutches, no idler wheels in sight. Golden tracks, no oxydation. A bit like the mighty (for me) Beocord 5000 of 1976! 

As this is the first RtoR I have seen open, I cant say much about it or ReVox, but since the disassemble I have been thinking about the complicated mechanical drive system, it has too many points where it begs for problems, as you say silly clutches, idler wheel and belts and brakes  a more direct and simpler system would have done it, on the other hand this unit is more than 50 years old, it may have been serviced at some point, but will have been working good for many years, if not, there would have been more signs of repairs.

In the 60es this was the Mercedes, and the Tandberg the VW. I had a RtoR back then, dont remember if it was B&O or a Tandberg, but we had a lot of fun with it. Grabbing the new hits from Radio Luxemburg late night, light out and volume turned way down, so my parents didnt find out.

I hope you get your cubes and a BC 5000, and yes it is a collectors item, took me 3 years to find one over here.

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chartz
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chartz replied on Wed, Jul 30 2014 6:24 PM

Søren Mexico:

In the 60es this was the Mercedes, and the Tandberg the VW. I had a RtoR back then, dont remember if it was B&O or a Tandberg, but we had a lot of fun with it. 

And the ReVox was a Rolls-Royce, to continue the metaphor.

My 1966 G36, all valve.

The 1979 B77 inside, being serviced:

 

That said, a nice, unworn Beocord 2000 would suit me perfectly of course. But I know those Bogen heads were very tough, because they are used in my Uher open-reel recorder as well.

And I do have two Beocord 5000 4715, both operational. Smile

Jacques

Rich
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Rich replied on Wed, Jul 30 2014 6:29 PM

Nice to see you working on the RtR, Soren.  Do you have any tapes in your collection?

By the way, when I got the stereo bug in the first half of the 80's, my goal was to one day own an Akai RtR.  Never did buy one, or any brand for that matter.

Blah blah blah, blah blah ba ran

Søren Mexico
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Rich:

Nice to see you working on the RtR, Soren.  Do you have any tapes in your collection?

By the way, when I got the stereo bug in the first half of the 80's, my goal was to one day own an Akai RtR.  Never did buy one, or any brand for that matter.

No tapes, but one came with the BC, will use that one first for tests, but saw on the net that tapes are still made and available, I do need recommendations on this.

@ Jacques: Thank you for the pic of the ReVox, 3 drive motors does it, probably in these times a more expensive solution. And the space for big reels I like too. Who knows, maybe there is a RtR virus in progressBig Smile

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Wed, Jul 30 2014 10:42 PM

Hi Søren,

 

I rather like your metaphor comparing the Tandberg with a Mercedes-Benz, but since my passion in autos is Rolls-Royce I now see that I should have sprung for a ReVox.

 

I too recorded music off the radio late at night with the volume down so my dad didn’t catch me. Still have those tapes, by the way, a real memory treasure as they include little bits of history, “And now for a twin-spin on WLCY 138.” Makes it much more than just the music.

 

In case anyone is keeping score those early tapes were made on an Ampex 800 which I kept until my B&O dealer politely declined to work on it anymore.

 

This Tandberg of mine I purchased new in 1971 and it had never seen a repair shop in all those years. From what I have learned the Tandbergs were most unforgiving when lacking regular lubrication.

 

Also like you I was über careful in taking it all apart making diagrams of everything, where each screw went, and even with 6 identical screws, I went so far as to make sure the screw I took out went back in the same hole. Over-kill no doubt, but I was assured it would go back together correctly.

 

I figured if I could handle a Beogram 4000, I could “service” a Tandberg reel-to-reel.

 

The Tapehead forum was aghast at the lack of lubrication in 43 years so I took care of that with 20W oil. With hand-holding I had the whole machine in pieces and replaced the burnt out light bulbs and performed a proper cleaning on the tape path/heads, etc.

 

The combination of a few minor repairs, cleaning, and lubrication transformed my Tandberg, where as before I started there were hesitations and less than perfect sound.

 

After my “servicing” the deck acted liked a new machine so I began using it daily and that was the downfall.

 

Unlike you I didn’t have the temerity to attempt to clean the pots, sliders, and contacts under the pushbuttons. I also knew the Tandberg desperately needed re-capping, but I have had poor results from my efforts in this area.

 

Added to this I doubt I would have spotted all the cracked solder points, let alone fashioning a Roto-Rooter device to clean the circuit board connection.

 

That is why unlike your Beocord 2000, mine is in the shop.

 

What mitigates a colossal repair bill is my deck arrived at the shop in good mechanical shape, clutches, brakes, heads, motor, all in very good shape.  The simple cleaning and lubrication was done and no need for parts except capacitors.

 

Maybe we do have a RtR virus going on here.

 

Jeff

 

P.S. Jacques, I really like your ReVox!

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000. Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Søren Mexico
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Piaf:
P.S. Jacques, I really like your ReVox!
Me too.

Back to the BC, I passed the wonderful machine a couple of times today, stopped just to look at it, and decided to take it further apart. This because the front panel switches shows oxidation, and it is to see that some of them has not been actuated for a long time, these may or may not  work after multiple "workouts" but I like it clean.

Panel off.

I can now get to the switches from both sides, the switches move front to back over the "tracks", I will apply some Deoxit, work them, leave them 15 min, then clean with ISP.

I then went on to study the manual, and found out, the reel drives are constructed from more parts, with a clutch system within them, made with felt pads, springs and washers, the felt pads treated with special grease. Here the components, the felt rings are from a "tape cleaner" located after the erase head an before the record and play heads. All pads cleaned with ISP, soapy water, and ISP again, left to dry over night.

Here the main drive wheel, the old foam must be some kind of dirt catcher, as it is located directly under some ventilation openings in the top cover, I took off the wheel as well, cleaned it and the old foam went to the garbage bin.

Here the left reel drive, the felt pad was totally dry, these molykote greases tend to dry out, and the only thing left is graphite like residues, these only increase wear, I have since many years prohibited the use of these greases in my workshop, but as the manual prescribes the use of this bearing and gasket destroyer, i went and bought a small amount of it, DONT ever use it for lubricating

To get at the drive pulley I had to loosen and move the whole tone head assembly, I did check this for a long time, but there is no way around it, next pic explains.

I could easily get out the right side reel drive, loosening the wheel for the counter drive, this wheel is also the adjustment for the play clutch, but the lever for operating this clutch can only be dismantled if the tone head assembly is moved to the back of the unit, you can then get at the screw holding it. This lever has a felt pad which also has to be cleaned and treated with a thin coat of Molykote grease. While fumbling around there the felt pad came off and fell down into the transformer housing, I had to dismantle the transformer cover to get out the felt pad. With the head assembly moved I could pull out the pulley, for cleaning and lub.

All out, see the old very hard glue and the dirty felt pad, I cleaned the felt pad with ISP, but the glue was still there, so I tried carefully with acetone, and that did it. This felt must be some cotton type because if it was poly or plastic it would melt with the acetone.

Lever cleaned with acetone, I then glued the felt to the lever with Arleenes Tacky glue, I have used this for driver surrounds with good results.

I left the items I cleaned with with ISP and soapy water to dry until tomorrow. The broken belt is for the counter drive.

And thats it for today, will be back with more.

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Thu, Jul 31 2014 6:44 AM

Søren,

 

You never fail to impress and as expected, on a grand scale.

 

What you manage to achieve, repeatedly is nothing short of miraculous.

 

I wonder, is your beautiful FS aware of this? I imagine she is.

 

With any luck we will be reel to reeling together in the very near future!

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000. Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

chartz
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chartz replied on Thu, Jul 31 2014 9:31 AM

Wonderful job indeed. And we love the pictures, don't we Jeff?

At least, you don't have to open and clean and lubricate 3 motors in this machine. A ghastly job in Revoxes, but the only mechanical job too!

And of course, old selenium rectifiers and capacitors, but I suppose old Beocords like this one are no exception.

How are you going to manage the felt gaskets?

 

Jacques

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Thu, Jul 31 2014 4:27 PM

Jacques,

 

Love the pictures? Oh indeed I do, they’re fantastic! Whoever said “A picture is worth a thousand words” was really on to something.

 

Yep, Søren does amazing work illustrated with truly remarkable pictures.

 

Interesting in any thread, but unbelievably helpful in one of Søren’s tutorials…. like how to replace speaker frets. Took an impossible job and made it easy.

 

Jeff

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Søren Mexico
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Thank you for roses guys, but I am a bit disappointed of the  interest in this thread, vintage was more lively a year ago. That said, just forget it, at least some members are still interested in vintage.

Today I was a little lazy and just did some cleaning, there is not much more to take apart, without a lot of work. So I cleaned all the PCBs. The connections tracks all look like this now.

I also checked all the caps with an ESR, found 3 that was on the limit, but not bad, also in the power supply PCB the 2 big rectifiers read good 0.648 V , but the (I think) 9.7V diode only read 0.245 something, ? can this be right, measured on board not connected.

Cleaned the breakes.

Here a dirty one, not the best pic, but you see it.

I then went on assembling it all again. According to the manual, I applied the correct grease on all the felt pads, they looked good with no apparent wear. The 2 tape drives has to be adjusted in a certain way with the help of a pull weight scale, these scales comes in different sizes from 0.0 to up where you only dream about it, the smallest one I have starts at 5000 Grams, so no use for it here, but thinking about it, and reading the manual, I made a tool for it. One is supposed to have a pull of 300 Gr. +- 25 gr. between the upper and lower part of the tape drives, so I came up with this. A coffee cup and my Swiss knife has about, 310 Gr. thats where about the upper part has to move from the the lower part.

Coffee cup with knife, move the upper part, without knife (45 Gr.) it does not, thats perfect.

The pair of pliers is to adjust the spring tension. Sorry for the pic, I only have two hands.

I then went on with the assembly, front panel back, its easy, only one PCB connector and 5 screws involved.

Back view, by the way, the original B&O tape spool, did not come with the BC, Søren Hammer gave it to me when I visited him in DK this year. He is still in education (just like Evan), we will hear more from him when he get the time for it.

Tonight as every Thursday I played a dice game with 3 to 5 women, i lost

Have a good sleep and pleasant dreams.

 

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

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Søren Mexico:
Thank you for roses guys, but I am a bit disappointed of the  interest in this thread, vintage was more lively a year ago. That said, just forget it, at least some members are still interested in vintage.

Not posting doesn't mean not reading! Smile I'm following this with interest, always fun to see the innards of something I've never had in my hands.

--mika

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Me too.  I have a few RtoR's which will need to be looked at and your threads are always invaluable.

Dave.

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valve1 replied on Fri, Aug 1 2014 8:37 AM

From some of your hard won previous restoration projects with detailed photos, I read them all !

Did come across another B &O R to R on ebay US.

keep up the great work.

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Piaf replied on Fri, Aug 1 2014 4:30 PM

Hi Søren,

 

Do not lose heart, the interest is here.

 

Perhaps what you need to remember is this restoration is progressing nicely, step by step, whereas the Beomaster 4400 was pure drama. Each success was followed by a devastating failure until finally you won…. VICTORY!

 

Add to that your writing style and you had us all riveted to our seats!

 

Jacques is right, you really do take remarkable photos with highly educational captions.

 

Keep up the excellent work!

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000. Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

chartz
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chartz replied on Fri, Aug 1 2014 4:49 PM

Nice trick for adjusting the spring's tension Søren, very cunning!

The tool I have for tensioning is this:

Jacques

Rich
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Rich replied on Fri, Aug 1 2014 5:23 PM

tournedos:

Søren Mexico:
Thank you for roses guys, but I am a bit disappointed of the  interest in this thread, vintage was more lively a year ago. That said, just forget it, at least some members are still interested in vintage.

Not posting doesn't mean not reading! Smile I'm following this with interest, always fun to see the innards of something I've never had in my hands.

I can sympathize with how Soren feels.  I had the same sort of feeling, I guess, when I rescued a pair of P45s and had to repair the slipped magnets. 

It seems there is much more enthusiasm for the 100th pair of CX100s that get refoamed and repainted than a truly difficult restoration that takes research, hard work, creativity, and even a little talent.

Blah blah blah, blah blah ba ran

Søren Mexico
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chartz:

Nice trick for adjusting the spring's tension Søren, very cunning!

The tool I have for tensioning is this:

If I had to do more than just this one RtR I would go and buy the needed pull scales, its really needed to do this kind of work properly, but I will try out the BC first and then decide whats needed.

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

BO
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BO replied on Fri, Aug 1 2014 6:15 PM

Søren Mexico:
I am a bit disappointed of the  interest in this thread, vintage was more lively a year ago. That said, just forget it, at least some members are still interested in vintage.

I'm highly interested and reading this. It will be very useful for my BC 2000 DL. SmileSmileSmile

//Bo.
A long list...

Søren Mexico
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Rich:
I can sympathize with how Soren feels.  I had the same sort of feeling, I guess, when I rescued a pair of P45s and had to repair the slipped magnets. 

Rich, It was an interesting thread with a pair of speakers that would have gone to the bin if someone else had bought them, not only the magnets got repaired but also the woodwork had to be done thoroughly

I was again writing without thinking, or I was disappointed because I lost the dice game, there are over 250 hits on this thread, so there are members reading this.

For me it is a help to make a thread of repairs, putting it in writing and selecting the pics, makes me thinking over what I have done, and what has to be done in the next step. Reading my own thread also gives me a reminder, on where I made failures or where I could have made it simpler or faster, and as my memory just not work as good as it did 20 years ago, its a good place to go back and check. Without the forum I would probably just take some pics and make a couple of notes and throw it all away when finished.

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Dillen
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Dillen replied on Fri, Aug 1 2014 6:33 PM

tournedos:

Søren Mexico:
Thank you for roses guys, but I am a bit disappointed of the  interest in this thread, vintage was more lively a year ago. That said, just forget it, at least some members are still interested in vintage.

Not posting doesn't mean not reading! Smile I'm following this with interest, always fun to see the innards of something I've never had in my hands.

I am here too Stick out tongue

Martin

Rich
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Rich replied on Fri, Aug 1 2014 6:47 PM

Søren Mexico:

Rich:
I can sympathize with how Soren feels.  I had the same sort of feeling, I guess, when I rescued a pair of P45s and had to repair the slipped magnets. 

Rich, It was an interesting thread with a pair of speakers that would have gone to the bin if someone else had bought them, not only the magnets got repaired but also the woodwork had to be done thoroughly

I was again writing without thinking, or I was disappointed because I lost the dice game, there are over 250 hits on this thread, so there are members reading this.

For me it is a help to make a thread of repairs, putting it in writing and selecting the pics, makes me thinking over what I have done, and what has to be done in the next step. Reading my own thread also gives me a reminder, on where I made failures or where I could have made it simpler or faster, and as my memory just not work as good as it did 20 years ago, its a good place to go back and check. Without the forum I would probably just take some pics and make a couple of notes and throw it all away when finished.

Well, in the end, the result of your own work has to be the satisfaction, not the "Attaboys" you get from other people.

Please keep up the good work AND reporting of it.  It's inspiring.

Blah blah blah, blah blah ba ran

Millemissen
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Hej Søren,

I do read the 'vintage threads' once in a while.

Personally I don't have the patience to do this kind of stuff - or the skills....

And I can't contribute to these threads in any way.

But I do admire people, who can do it, does it and likes doing it.

So keep up your work.

I think you are amazing Yes - thumbs up

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

Ben_S
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Ben_S replied on Fri, Aug 1 2014 8:14 PM

Me too, absolutely love reading these threads! 

Keep up the great work!

Søren Mexico
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I could not do too much today as I had 5 guests for dinner and had to cook for them.

But I did manege to change the power supply jack, these old jacks and plugs are nearly impossible to find, I have been searching since I bought this BC.

The problem was the cable, that came in a very bad condition, so I was forced to find a new cable with a plug that fits the original jack, or find something that fits into the jack support. Here the old cable. As you can see someone tried to repair it, all the outer insulation is gone.

So I went to the " dont throw it away, maybe I can use in 5 years" bin, found a computer power supply transformer, where the jack could fit, took it apart, desoldered the jack, measured it and it was very near the outer dimensions of the old jack. I could then bend the aluminum taps, holding the old one, to fit the new jack. I have now a 4 feet connection cable, the old one was nearly 7 feet. As the BC only use about 350 mA, and the power supply was 800 mA, I think this will do good service.

 

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Sat, Aug 2 2014 4:28 PM

Hi Søren,

 

I think every household has one of the bins, I know I do…. one for electric wires of every description, one for “stereo” stuff, and one for computers. You never know when you are going to need something and there it is.

 

When I purchased my BeoSound Century on eBay, the seller was furious at the selling price (I was the only bidder) and sent me several hateful emails to that effect. The BeoSound arrived with no electric cable, clearly the petty revenge of the angry seller and I thought I was toast.

 

However the BeoSound cable is not proprietary to Bang & Olufsen so I walked into Canada’s version of Radio Shack and there was my missing cable, a lot of them.

 

Cheap too, but not as cheap as your “bin” price.

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000. Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Søren Mexico
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In the weekend i had to do my duty as friendly family member, family members do not appreciate, me doing my B&O while they are visiting, they do appreciate my music though, Saturdays menu, oven baked salmon ( marinated before) with butter sauteed greens, hollandaise sauce and wild rice 7 people. Sundays menu, Tbone center steaks and arrachera (Mexican special) with pasta Alfredo and mixed green salad 12 people. This just to show you that the BC 2000 had to wait. 

Today i got to it, soldered the main jack to the mains, connected the BC, and checked if it would work, the speed dial was set to off, and upon connecting the main cable nothing happened, no lights nothing. turned the speed dial to 3 3/4 and lights came on in the recording displays and the motor started. So far so good.

I got kind of nervous now, just had to add a well mixed cuba. Placed a short piece of tape, had to think back about how to do that, thats about 40 years ago since I did that last time. That went well, connected 2 speakers, I then crossed my fingers and put the lever to play position, the reels started to rotate and it looked like it should, the tension guide wheels went to mid position and stayed there, no funny sounds except for the ice cubes in my cuba. I increased volume slowly, at 50 % I got sound, classical music sounding, mostly from the right speaker, the left speaker sounded too, but with a lot of distortion. Now this tape came with the BC, so i dont know how good it is, or brand. I then connected my BG 2404 and put on some good old jazz, pressed the record switches and play lever, with the pause lever engaged. Red lights came on. Reminds me of how often I have been in the red light districts in different parts of the world. Here in Mexico we do not have red light districts, but we do have "Zona Rosa".

I recorded a pair of songs, and checked the sound again, still left channel distorted, checked the tone heads, I did clean them properly, but did still look a little dirty, as I did my homework, I know you can restore tone heads with fine abrasives, so I went looking for a 600 grain sanding paper, cut a small piece to fit, and with a plastic pin, polished the 2 heads, then polished with a non abrasive pad, Left channel got better, but still lower than the right channel, no distortion, but just lower volume, checked treble and bass, very little treble function, barely audible, bass at max. gives distortion, only in the left channel. Both channels, gives very little respond to treble and bass.

Here a MP4 so you can hear and see the works. I will now investigate where the left channel goes, and why the low response on treble and bass. I played the same record from BG 2404 and used the BC as amp, but same result, left channel bad, and low response on treble and bass. ANY Ideas ??

P1010769.mp4

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Thu, Aug 7 2014 5:05 PM

Hi Søren,

 

Great menu! I’ll bet your guests were delighted!

 

Now the BC 2000 looks impressive and certainly sounds pretty good on my computer.

 

Really love all the close-up photography, a real testament to your work and work ethic! Bravo!

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000. Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Dave Farr
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I haven't got the knowledge, skills or creative talents with electronic components that Rich or Soren (and many others) have.  I do admire their desire, creativity, ingenuity in the face of a seemingly hopeless situation and really do appreciatethe threads they create for us mere mortals who try to make limited and less ambitious projects come to life.

Their work (and others) is invaluable in keeping vintage B&O operating and helps lesser skilled 'meddlers' like myself more confident and able to tackle repairs of our own.  It's impossible to reply to each thread or post but it doesn't mean we aren't here rooting for you and your projects.  Actually, the P45 slipped magnets thread is being used right now as I have the exact problem with one of the drivers which is currently in pieces in my museum room.

Keep it up and don't feel disheartened by a lack of replies.  The most important thing is to enjoy what you are doing and why you are doing it for yourself.

Soren, I have a barn full of things 'I should keep for just in case'.  I think the old bath tub can probably go by now - though I could use it for watering the sheep in their field.  I'll keep it another 10 years 'just in case'.

Dave.

Søren Mexico
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Dave, thank you for the nice words, and of course, the rest of you, who follows the thread, commenting or not. Our responsibility is to teach, thats one of the reasons I post here, not only pics, but also an explanation, how too.

I got farther today, found the failure in the dis balanced sound, the double potentiometer for "play" was dirty ( I did clean it) and the 2 caps was way off, I changed those, 4 uF/40V in the drawing, but 3.2 uF/40V in the flesh, so i found a pair of 3.3 uf/ 63V. But I think the extra cleaning did the most of it. These poties are kind of difficult to get at, but carefully pulling and listening to Rolling Stones 40 Licks does it. Red arrow the cap, its the same on the other side, green arrows is where I applied Dioxit, and moved the poti up and down 100 or more times, that worked

.

before cleaning and chancing caps i had more than 20 % difference between right and left channel, after less than 10 % . Of course I checked that before assembling the unit. Now aint that beautiful, the big tape, and ready to record, Sam Cooke, Night Beat, from my BG 2404 with SMMC 4.

I love that pink light, I must go to Zona Rosa soon.

I have now balance between right and left, but treble and bass, has very low response, so I will now have to decide if I change all the electrolytic caps, clean more efficiently the poties, and get myself a microphone, to record my voice for the after world, or my nieces doing their things. also I have to get some good new tapes to record, the old one that came with the BC, has "old tape syndrome". I will give it a thought and decide on what to do. But I can record and play, without problems, and thats it for now.

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Dave Farr
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Great job Soren, well done.  I don't think your wife would appreciate your visit to Zona Rosa!

Your culinary skills seem to be as high as your B&O tinkering skills - if I ever make it to Mexico, I'll drop in!

Tapes often appear on eBay so maybe worth a look.  I'm sure you will have this opened up again soon as you will no doubt be bothered by the lack of treble and bass response.  You want your music (and nieces) to sound their best.  You've done most of the hard work so may as well finish to your total satisfaction - especially as you've been looking forward to one of these RtoR's for such a long time.

I've enjoyed this thread and look forward to your next tutorial on something interesting.

Dave.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Fri, Aug 8 2014 4:39 PM

Hi Søren,

 

Your Beocord 2000 certainly has made brisk progress and thus far, in a straight line, unlike your Beomaster 4400.

 

In a (more or less) parallel universe my Tandberg progresses and a true educational adventure, it has been. I now know without the slightest question why technicians will jump on a cassette recorder but literally run for the exits when a reel-to-reel is mentioned.

 

You, on the other hand LOVE a challenge, so the Beocord 2000 is PERFECT for you.

 

First assess the motor (the Tandberg has 3) and the capstan, if they are OK, proceed. If there is a problem with any of these, toss the deck. Then work on/adjust/lubricate everything mechanical. When that is done check all the solder points, and then test all circuits.

 

I know all this because my tech takes great pleasure in explaining everything that he does, step by step, and why.

 

I asked about the re-capping and I got, “Jeff, it took me FIVE hours just to get the main circuit board out. The LAST thing I want to do is change caps. I have to test all the circuits first. You don’t want to be changing things before testing….”

 

I politely asked why it took five hours to remove the circuit board and was informed that everything mechanical has to be disassembled and removed to get at the board.

 

No wonder no one was willing to work on this reel-to-reel. I mean it takes almost a full day to check the basics and remove the mechanicals just to find out if the deck is even worth trying to repair. Good Grief!

 

Søren, I sure am glad you enjoy these difficult jobs! Your workmanship is extraordinary and the superb pictures with captions is educational for all of us.

 

Also loved the link to the video with sound of your Beocord 2000 in action.

 

Enjoy your weekend with a Cuba!

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000. Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

Søren Mexico
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When I start on the BC again, it will take me between 30 and 45 min. to strip it down. So 5 hours is a lot.

There are some failures still to do, but I want to find the caps and some transistors (transistors mainly for spares), before I continue. I also found an adjustment screw/spring missing, this causes the tape to unwind when stopping in reverse, also the reel spindle brakes are worn, I will have to find some cork in the right dimension to make new brake pads. The chassis is resting on 6 rubber supports, which are old and worn. For the input connectors there are missing a sign/label and on the top of the tone head cover a B&O logo.

So a trip to the street Republica de El Salvador, will be of need. Thats a whole 2 mile street where one can find everything electronic, new and used, pirate copies, and old junk, but one will have to use a day, and visit the backyards to find exactly what one need. For my jukebox I found NOS relays there. Also belts in all variations are present. Last time I was there, I saw a small shop only repairing power supplies for phones and computers, I wonder how they can live from that, considering the prices for new power supplies. Whatever one buys there is without any warranties and no returns. I really enjoy it when I get there, but the time to get to and from is a PIB.

Collecting Vintage B&O is not a hobby, its a lifestyle.

Piaf
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Piaf replied on Fri, Aug 8 2014 11:09 PM

Hi Søren,

 

45 minutes to disassemble a Beocord 2000, wow, you are fast. FAST!

 

I was kinda wondering how you managed to go through your 2000 and get it back up and running so quickly. Sorry you have additional repairs to perform, but I think they are pretty much to be expected.

 

As you know I rummaged around in my Tandberg on numerous occasions and I too could do that in 30 minutes, possibly less, but I wasn’t disassembling anything other than the VU meters to replace the lamps, and the push-buttons that control FF, reverse, stop, and play, also for lamp replacement.

 

The big difference between your machine and mine, as I noticed with keen interest, is the Tandberg is in amazing physical shape with regard to things like the leather brakes that apply when stop is selected. They look like new. (I say this with NO disrespect for your fine 2000.)

 

One tension spring had fallen off, but was a snap to replace, like 20 seconds.

 

The thorough cleaning and my best attempt at lubrication took hours; a pro could have done the same thing in half that time, or less.

 

So when the shop received my reel-to-reel it was lubricated, spotless inside, and everything working except the auto stop feature, something I simply missed…. crud on the sensor bulb. (OK, if you are keeping notes, my counter doesn’t work, but I don’t really care about that.)

 

Anyway like Dave (and others) commented on your thread, they are not up to your caliber of repair, and neither am I.

 

For awhile there I thought I really had things in good order, all functions were lightning fast, no hesitations, the sound was extremely good, and all the lights working looked great! But then the left channel sound went haywire and it was time for a professional.

 

You’d like my tech, a very careful and methodical guy….. like you. I initially mistook his caution as fear of my Tandberg, but he was just not going to get too involved unless he thought he could actually fix it. Once he determined that the 3 motors, the heads, and the capstan were good, the pace increased.

 

His first bit of business was cleaning the pots and sliders. Once he was happy with that he went on to ALL the connectors in the unit. That took forever.

 

He then fixed the auto stop (cleaning) and lubricated everything I missed…. a lot more work.

 

Each step improved the sound, but it is still not what it could be.

 

I really like/enjoy that he takes the time to explain to me exactly what he has done, why he did it, and the results thereof.

 

Then came the BIG job, taking out the main circuit board. That it took a professional 5 hours surprised me, but as virtually everything had to be removed to get at it, I suppose I can comprehend that. I mean it is not like you couldn’t see the board, but apparently seeing it and removing it are two different things.

 

Once the circuit board was out, it was time to repair numerous cracked solder points.

 

I was anxious for him to replace the Frako caps, but he said whoa, you can’t replace nothing until the circuits are tested. And that’s where it currently is.

 

Reading your thread with the fantastic photos and my tech’s detailed description of his work, makes me feel a part of the action, even though I am not.

 

If this were a race (which it isn’t) I’d say you will have your Beocord 2000 up and running before I have my Tandberg 9000X….. but the point is to get the job done right.

 

And yes I know I am talking about another brand of reel-to-reel on your thread, but as I started out thinking I could “repair” my Tandberg myself and you began working on your Beocord 2000, it was like we were doing “similar” work at the same time.

 

True, I had to put up the white flag and seek help, but I don’t think there is any harm in comparing a reel-to-reel restoration…..  and they both are Scandinavian.

 

Jeff

Beogram 4000, Beogram 4002, Beogram 4004, Beogram 8000, Beogram 8002, Beogram 1602. Beogram 4500 CD player, B&O CDX player, Beocord 5000 T4716, Beocord 8004, Beocord 9000. Beomaster 1000, Beomaster 1600, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 2400.2, Beomaster 4400, Beomaster 4500, Beolab 5000, Beomaster 5000, BeoCenter 9000. BeoSound Century,  S-45.2, S-45.2, S-75, S-75, M-75, M-100, MC 120.2 speakers; B&O Illuminated Sign (with crown & red logo). B&O grey & black Illuminated Sign, B&O black Plexiglas dealer sign, B&O ash tray, B&O (Orrefors) dealer award vase,  B&O Beotime Clock. Navy blue B&O baseball cap, B&O T-shirt X2, B&O black ball point pen, B&O Retail Management Binder

 

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