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PC to Beomaster 6500 to MCL 2AV

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sonu1975
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sonu1975 posted on Wed, Dec 21 2016 8:30 PM

Hi experts,

I have connect my PC (from 3.5mm jack) to Beomaster 6500 (DIN) with 2 passive Penta speakers (which are in living room). From BM6500 I have connected with MCL cable to MCL 2AV and from there it's connected to a receiver and to two Beovox redline passive speakers (which are in bedroom).

It works if I play music from my PC to Penta speakers (in livingroom) useing the remote control panel but if I want to listen to my Beovox speakers (in bedroom) do I need to use the Beolink 1000 remote (I have that). If so how do I use it, which buttons to press ?

Thanks for all your help !

 

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sonu1975
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Posting from a PC.

Yes thats whats's my 2AV look like from the front.

Link posted by Lausvi for 2AV front and back: http://www.quality-dream-audio.co.uk/beolink/14020764.html

sonu1975
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Posting from a PC.

Yes thats whats's my 2AV look like from the front.

Link posted by Lausvi: http://www.quality-dream-audio.co.uk/beolink/14020764.html

Millemissen
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That means, that you actually have a version with outputs for passive speakers (2 x 4-pin plugs)?

A not very common version (where are you located/from where did you get the unit.).

Another beoworlder - who sometimes writes here - Rudi Petersen, worked at B&O at the time, when the MCL was 'the hot stuff' - maybe he would know more?

Please do (!) read the document, that I have already linked to - especially the part about the programming of the MCL2AV (page 5-2 and 5-3).

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

sonu1975
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I am located in Sweden and this unit with other B&O stuff (TV, VCR, Beosystem 6500) was bought by my father in 1987.

I am using 2x2pin plugs DIN for my Beovox Redline speakers.

I read your doc on programming but for that I would need a Beolink 1000 ? I have one but it does not seem to work :(
Any way I can test it to see if it works ?

Thansk, I'll try to see if I can find Rudi guy.

 

Rudi Pedersen
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Hi,

 

I can help you here as well, as I sent you a post by mail before Christmas explaining how to set this up.

As Millemissen says, I was at B&O at that time, as I was the electronic designer making MCL2AV.

Actually, you do not need an Beolink 1000, but this will help a lot. When the system is running, then you can press the Mute bottom on the receiver and this will start the system, but switching source and volume is not possible etc. So, find a used BL 1000 for very few SEK.

Read the mail I sent to you...

Is the system now running ??

Rudi Pedersen
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Hi,

I can clarify these questions, as I did the electronic for MCL2AV. This is many years ago, so writing this is like finding an old tape backup with data ;-)

The first version was equipped with both an MCL 2A and the new MCL2AV, as sales had the idea that people had to use this in some cases. As more and more installations were with MCL2AV, someone figured out how to save cost during production and removed the components for MCL2A. I can not remember, but I guess if you open up the product, you will see some freespace on the circuit board, as changing the board would too expensive.

When I close my eyes - I can still se the circuit diagram in front of me ;-)

Best regards Rudi

Millemissen
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Thanks Rudi,

I knew you would ;-)

MM

There is a tv - and there is a BV.

DMacri
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And thank you MM. Your link was very helpful to fill in the blanks for me. I am planning to replace my BS5000 using MCL 82 with my "new" BS6500. I was wondering what I would need to obtain to swap it over.

Now I have a much better understanding of MCL2AV and ABLI. I even found out what that powerlink to relay cable I had really was!

Dom

BeoSystem 5000, BeoSystem 6500, AV 7000, BeoSound 4000, Playmaker, BeoLab 2500, S-45, S-45.2, RL-140, CX-50, C-75, CX-100, 3 MCL82 link rooms, A8 earphones, A3, 4001 relay, H3, H3 ANC, H6, and ambio 

sonu1975
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sonu1975 replied on Tue, Jan 10 2017 11:18 AM

Hi Rudi,

Yes i did set up as you mentioned but still it didnt work.
I tried to press the mute on the IR transceiver to see if I could get the sound in the second room (without the amp) but couldn't get the sound to my passive speakers. Only the ones in the main room (where the amp is) was working.

Now I have left my Link system to a B&O service to see if the link is really working.

Wil let you know how it went and yes as you said it's easier to have a BL1000.

Millemissen
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By the way - there are a lot of tips and informations to be harvested on the forum - especially on the old forum - on these vintage, but still working, setups.

Just do a quick google search, and you will see - here is an example:

Have fun ;-)

MM


There is a tv - and there is a BV.

lausvi
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lausvi replied on Tue, Jan 10 2017 6:31 PM

Rudi Pedersen:

I can clarify these questions, as I did the electronic for MCL2AV. 

Hi Rudi!

It's cool to have original designer of the piece in question joining in the discussion. I think the MCL2AV is a cool piece of kit, I only recently got one and have only tested it.

From the old forums I read several mentions that the MCL2AV is somewhat noisy. Which I guess is understandable as it goes from speaker level to line and allows volume control between. I tested my only shortly and I think it was indeed a bit noisy. Can you elaborate on the design of the MCL2AV and how it came to be?

Now that I think about it, a kit to convert the later MCL2AV to the early one with speakerlink outputs might be pretty cool!

Rudi Pedersen
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Hi

It is very impressive to see that people are still using a MCL2AV - mine are gone long time ago...today I have all rooms with Essence.

When the equipment was designed - and this is probably valid for all developers - a question comes up as to how long time the unit should be able to work without any failure - also called MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures). I remember this to be 10 years. It think it was in 1987 or 1988 I worked with this, so there is no doubt about my calculations were not very good, as this equipment is still running  ;-)  Maybe it was ok I created this too good.

At that time the MCl2A was the best solution on the marked, but this is/was just a copy of the master room, so when you raised the volume in the master room, the link room went up as well - there was no individual volume control. The source was also linked directly to the master.

Starting from scratch no-one would probably make the MCL2AV the way we did, but in this case the marked was filled up with products like Beomaster 5000 and after that Beomaster 6500 etc. So, the MASTERS were out there and you have to build an add-on the can use the products already in place to secure the investment at the customer premises.

So we had to make someting that could be used with the masters already in the market. Today we have digital outputs, but at that time we had to live with the speaker output (analogue).

When you play loud from a master the signal on the speaker output is very high in terms of sinus swing. This gives a big gab between the masters noice itself (noice from the electronic) and the output signal, also called Signal to Noice ratio (SNR). There you will not feel any problem with noice. But when the Master (in the main room) plays very quiet the SNR is not as good as the first case. Then noice dominate more. This is one part of the noice you will be able to hear.

If you want to play relative load in the link room and quiet in the master room, you need to amplify the input signal from the master room and then you add more noice to the end result.
So, you are born into a problem from the beginning, that you need to accept.

Secondly, the link room need to lower the amplitude from the master if the master plays loud and amplify in case it plays quiet. The means we need to have an attenuator (in terms of simple component as resistor grids). In the MCL2AV this is done by electronic switches controlled by the microprocessor and again control by the data signal from the master (the white wire in the 7 wire cable).

Today we have better electronic component than back in 1987, so the problem that I will talk about could be avoid today. There was also a cost target issue - as in all cases in development - to reach, meaning we had to bring down cost.

This ended up having some component that are relativ noisy when the volume is changing, as the clicks comes from the attenuation done by the switches.

We did many test for internal people to judge if the clicks were ok or not. We knew they were there but decided to accept this. Well, the CD's was new to the marked but turntables and vinyl were more common with a lot of noice - (it seems like turntables are coming back again - but not for me).
So, you will hear the clicks when you change volume. 

Finally, this product - MCL2AV - was developed nearly 30 years ago with the technology level at that time. I am actually proud to see people are still using this - so at the end this is not too bad, then  ;-)

 

tournedos
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Rudi Pedersen:
Finally, this product - MCL2AV - was developed nearly 30 years ago with the technology level at that time. I am actually proud to see people are still using this - so at the end this is not too bad, then  ;-)

Thanks for your insights, Rudi - it is very interesting to hear from actual product designers! Marketing talk we can always find in old brochures Big Smile

Today, who could design something of even this complexity, and predict that it would still be used in 2047?

--mika

MJBeo
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MJBeo replied on Fri, May 19 2017 12:40 PM

Dear Rudi, great to hear from The Creator! I "discovered" the MCL system some 4 years ago and currently have all the rooms in my house connected to my BM5500 via either MCL2A or MCL2a/v. I am constantly testing the limits of the system I think, integration with newer products, testing out different configurations. I have a LOT of fun figuring out what is possible and the best thing about it I think is the fact that the system is 30 years old. The video options and link room capabilities from MCL system are outdated in this HD era, but the music options still compete easily with modern integrated music systems. Every morning I start a cd from from my bedroom that sits in the DVD tray of my 2006 BV7. And every time I am happy that the system works so well! (On a side note: It is also much more reliable than my new playmaker in combination with my iPhone, just because if I pause the music for more than 3 minutes, the airplay is disconnected - because it is designed this way. It always needs some additional steps with newer systems, or you need to pull out the smartphone, while the old equipment just works with a press of a button.)

The only reason I might upgrade to a newer system would be the noise in the link rooms, when quietly listening to main-room sources.

Rudi Pedersen:
Today we have better electronic component than back in 1987, so the problem that I will talk about could be avoid today.

I am not at all an expert in electronics, so forgive my ignorance, but would it be possible to exchange a few components in the MCL2a/v to reduce the noise? Just a thought! Or did you mean by this comment that if you would completely redesign it today it will be better at managing the noise, but not just by exchanging some components with modern ones?

Thanks again for your work 30 years ago :-)

Beosystem 5500 + Playmaker MKI + RL60.2 / MCL2 A + RL35      BV7-32 MKIII + Raspberry Pi3 + Lintronic -238 + MCL2P & CX50 / Cona     4 link rooms with MCL2 A / MCL2 A/V + MCL2P  + CX100 / CX50 / Grundig 210a     Various Vintage restore objects

Rudi Pedersen
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Hi,

I am glad to hear that you are using the MCL2Av still and enjoy the product.

Changing components to todays way of doing electronic is not possible with a total re-construction.

But, I am sure after so many years, some of the components are burned out - special the capacitors can not, after so many years, be active in the right way. This will probably make more noise in the sound than from the start.

So, if you can or have a friend to assist you, then you can replace the capacitors all over - but again this is a major job to do.

You are right that todays products like Essence, iPhone, iPad etc are not easy and fast to use, as everything is on battery and not ready within seconds to press. I still use remote fra B&O for easy access.

It toke me some time as well to change behaviors but after some years you get used to it. ;-)

Good luck with the MCL's

BR Rudi

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